Line 6 Helix

TimmyO

vasselmeyer said:

vasselmeyer said:

I played with one at the guitar show yesterday. Within 3 minutes I had replicated my pedalboard. I'm sure it would have needed some tweaking but it was incredibly intuitive.

I won't buy one...not for a while anyway. I love tinkering with my pedalboard, and not just the  pedals parameters, I like the physical aspect of how it all works together and the  Heath Robinson nature of a complex board.

I think that needs to go on Urban Dictionary as a definition of Stockholm Syndrome :-) 

TimmyO

So who has purchased 3rd party IRs, and which ones? 

fretmeister

Nope. Stock ones are fine.

Teetonetal

TimmyO said:

So who has purchased 3rd party IRs, and which ones? 

Nope. Getting great results with 2 stock cabs. Can't be bothered with IR and all the faff of picking. It's just another thing to obsess over and get sucked onto.

Does now come with a download pack though. 

vasselmeyer

TimmyO said:

vasselmeyer said:

vasselmeyer said:

I played with one at the guitar show yesterday. Within 3 minutes I had replicated my pedalboard. I'm sure it would have needed some tweaking but it was incredibly intuitive.

I won't buy one...not for a while anyway. I love tinkering with my pedalboard, and not just the  pedals parameters, I like the physical aspect of how it all works together and the  Heath Robinson nature of a complex board.

I think that needs to go on Urban Dictionary as a definition of Stockholm Syndrome :-) 

You're absolutely right. I like the way that  totally Heath Robinson solutions (e.g., isolated power supplies, switchers, midi control, custom cabling) has been developed and created just to solve guitarists' problems. The Helix fixes that in one go - I don't deny it. However, I love messing with what I've accumulated over the years because it's taken me AGES to get it  to be able to do exactly what I want. There's blood sweat and tears involved in what I have and I can promise you that it's absolutely unique to me. No one else on the planet will have put together the same combination of flightcase, pedals, power supplies, amps, cabling, switching and patching that I have.

I've heard and played with the Helix and, yes,  it's even more flexible than what I've built. It is at least half the cost of my  setup, definitely lighter and less cumbersome, but  what it doesn't have is anything of ME invested in it. As I said, I suspect I'll end up with one  or something similar in the future, but for the moment it's just a curiosity because I'm pretty happy with what I have already built.

guitarfishbay

As far as 3rd party IRs go I've got stuff from:

- 3 Sigma
- CabIR.EU
- Celestion Plus
- Dr Bonkers (bass only)
- Fractal & ML Soundlabs (Fractal only)
- Karzog
- Ownhammer
- Redwirez
- Rosen Digital
- Two Notes

My opinion is Ownhammer is what I'd recommend first. They're good value, very well recorded, and I find them easy to use. 

As pointed out by @Sporky the level may be higher on OH IRs so if you're comparing you should level match to make it fair. 

Sporky

I tried a good few of the free OwnHammer ones. They were perfectly good, but I didn't feel there was any advantage over the stock cabinets (and I level matched to 0.05dB using a calibrated meter from work). And IRs are more faff than the inbuilt cabs.

TimmyO

ta

Sporky

vasselmeyer said:

I've heard and played with the Helix and, yes,  it's even more flexible than what I've built. It is at least half the cost of my  setup, definitely lighter and less cumbersome, but  what it doesn't have is anything of ME invested in it.

I would venture to suggest that there's an obvious solution to that.

guitarfishbay

Sporky said:

I tried a good few of the free OwnHammer ones. They were perfectly good, but I didn't feel there was any advantage over the stock cabinets (and I level matched to 0.05dB using a calibrated meter from work). 

The only free OH IRs are of the Mesa OS 4x12, with the non Mesa (regular) V30 speaker.  I don't see how it would be possible to do an actual A/B unless there's a model of the same thing in the Helix.  To me a different speaker type makes an a/b too subjective (and it is already a subjective thing as it is).  I'm not discounting your preferences because they would still stand regardless.

I know most users in this thread are not IR users, but having spent a lot of hours with real Mesa cabs (2x12 and 4x12 with Mesa V30s) and multiple packs from different companies my own subjective opinion is that the Ownhammer ones are overall the best mix of well recorded, well organised, and value for money.

Likewise with Greenbacks - I've got several packs with greenbacks (M magnet Greenbacks being my other favourite speaker) and the Ownhammer Marshall greenback cabs are very well done.

Now (finally) with the knowledge the Helix IR block was separate to the inbuilt cabs I understand why some Helix users prefer the workflow of inbuilt.  

Interestingly from chatting to Drew (who is still loving his Helix) he also said he preferred this setup because he can skip the inbuilt cabs altogether and use OH more easily, scrolling with his feet.

I do wonder how much of this is down to sounds used.  In my own experience, the higher the gain the more important small movements in mic placement tend to be (especially balancing clarity vs fizzy high end, or solid low end vs mud).

Cabicular

For Me it was a case of
am I unhappy with this sound ... no
ok ill load up some IRS and see if they improve it drastically
load up and and audition
not enough difference to make me go through the hassle

vasselmeyer

Sporky said:

vasselmeyer said:

I've heard and played with the Helix and, yes,  it's even more flexible than what I've built. It is at least half the cost of my  setup, definitely lighter and less cumbersome, but  what it doesn't have is anything of ME invested in it.

I would venture to suggest that there's an obvious solution to that.

So obvious that I've missed it? 

Sporky

guitarfishbay said:

Sporky said:

I tried a good few of the free OwnHammer ones. They were perfectly good, but I didn't feel there was any advantage over the stock cabinets (and I level matched to 0.05dB using a calibrated meter from work). 

The only free OH IRs are of the Mesa OS 4x12, with the non Mesa (regular) V30 speaker.  I don't see how it would be possible to do an actual A/B unless there's a model of the same thing in the Helix.  To me a different speaker type makes an a/b too subjective (and it is already a subjective thing as it is).  I'm not discounting your preferences because they would still stand regardless.

The mantra seems to be that 3rd party IRs are massively better than the stock cabs.

I simply don't think that's true, and I think that's predicated on sloppy testing.

That said, I've never been a cork sniffer. I want to get on with building sounds and playing with them. The stock cabs are perfectly good, but I accept that some people derive pleasure from spending time and money on rabbit-holes.

guitarfishbay

Sporky said:

vasselmeyer said:

I've heard and played with the Helix and, yes,  it's even more flexible than what I've built. It is at least half the cost of my  setup, definitely lighter and less cumbersome, but  what it doesn't have is anything of ME invested in it.

I would venture to suggest that there's an obvious solution to that.

If your setup was stolen would you replace it with a Helix?

It took me ages to save up and build my rig too but I bought my digital unit from somewhere that did 30 day returns and in the end I sold pretty much everything except my very basic Boss/Dunlop board 'just in case'. A couple of years on and several of those pedals are on loan anyway.

Sporky

vasselmeyer said:

Sporky said:

vasselmeyer said:

I've heard and played with the Helix and, yes,  it's even more flexible than what I've built. It is at least half the cost of my  setup, definitely lighter and less cumbersome, but  what it doesn't have is anything of ME invested in it.

I would venture to suggest that there's an obvious solution to that.

So obvious that I've missed it? 

Sorry!

What I meant was that from how you've described your approach to your current pedalboard, you'd put a lot of you into making your Helix patches.

I liked building my pedalboard, but I really like constructing sounds in the Helix. You get all the creative side but none of the practical hassles - and, as you've mentioned, vastly more flexibility and possibilities.

guitarfishbay

Sporky said:

The mantra seems to be that 3rd party IRs are massively better than the stock cabs.

I simply don't think that's true, and I think that's predicated on sloppy testing.

That said, I've never been a cork sniffer. I want to get on with building sounds and playing with them. The stock cabs are perfectly good, but I accept that some people derive pleasure from spending time and money on rabbit-holes.

Everybody has their own level of 'that'll do'.  

I don't think it's a rabbit hole unless you're chasing a unicorn.  

If you've already got the unicorn there's nothing to chase.  

I also think it is a fair observation (expanding on this) that some people don't know what their unicorn sounds like... that's where the time will go.  This is a common 'issue' many have had with any versatile equipment - including multi channel amps...

I did all my 'cork sniffing'/'rabbit chasing' with speaker cabs and mics, just like I'm sure most people did theirs with real amps/drive pedals before getting a Helix...  To me it's not difficult to tell if I've got the right one or not, or what I should look for, because I've already done the homework to an extent... same reason as I usually recommend people (if they want to) start with buying an IR pack that is the same as the cab they'd usually use.  I know that proved useful for at least one member here.  I don't advocate reinventing the wheel when there's no need

IRs/stock cabs whatever you want to use.... they are a million times faster (and cheaper - at one point I owned 5 real cabs, so my IR collection is a tiny % of that) than using real mics and cabs.  It takes seconds to tell if you've got the right one, just like it takes seconds to tell if you've got your mic in the right position or not with a real cab.  But you can just hit next, instead of putting your headphones back on/unplugging/rearranging everything/losing the will to live when you accidentally knock a mic stand over.  

guitarfishbay

Sporky said:

Sorry!

What I meant was that from how you've described your approach to your current pedalboard, you'd put a lot of you into making your Helix patches.

I liked building my pedalboard, but I really like constructing sounds in the Helix. You get all the creative side but none of the practical hassles - and, as you've mentioned, vastly more flexibility and possibilities.

Not having to deal with velcro and finding the right length patch cable is a pretty big plus.

Teetonetal

The longet im on this forum, the lower my level of that'll do had become. Needs to be good enough to enjoy playing. That is all.

Sporky

guitarfishbay said:

I did all my 'cork sniffing'/'rabbit chasing' with speaker cabs and mics, just like I'm sure most people did theirs with real amps/drive pedals before getting a Helix...  To me it's not difficult to tell if I've got the right one or not, or what I should look for, because I've already done the homework to an extent... 

Aye - I can see that it probably makes a lot more (genuine) difference to you and to others who've spent a lot of time with different cabs and mics and so on.

I'm not knocking 3rd party IRs, I am just wary/weary of the mantra that the built in stuff is awful and you have to buy 3rd party IRs in order not to make your audience vomit in disgust.

guitarfishbay

Sporky said:

guitarfishbay said:

I did all my 'cork sniffing'/'rabbit chasing' with speaker cabs and mics, just like I'm sure most people did theirs with real amps/drive pedals before getting a Helix...  To me it's not difficult to tell if I've got the right one or not, or what I should look for, because I've already done the homework to an extent... 

Aye - I can see that it probably makes a lot more (genuine) difference to you and to others who've spent a lot of time with different cabs and mics and so on.

I'm not knocking 3rd party IRs, I am just wary/weary of the mantra that the built in stuff is awful and you have to buy 3rd party IRs in order not to make your audience vomit in disgust.

Just to clarify that this is not that argument, I was replying to Timmy's post asking about what 3rd party IRs people had bought.