Audio Interfaces Redux

Drew_TNBD

Hey chaps, I'm looking at audio interfaces as I want to get one with SPDIF.

It's for home use only, so I only need say.... two line inputs, two mic inputs, one headphone output, SPDIF in and out, and ... well... minimum of two line outputs, but preferably four.

Any suggestions?

I'm currently looking at:

SPL Crimson
Roland Octa Capture

But happy to have others to look into...

ecc83

Both of those are excellent but pricey?

The Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 has your specified I/O and runs well under £200. It will also, I bet beat, certainly equal those others for driver stability and low latency.

Bit OT but I think the Crimson missed a trick in not including ADAT at that price?

Dave

Clarky

I have a TC-Elec Konnekt 24. This is a pretty ok unit and has SPIDF connections [I used this to the Axe-FX for a while when I had USB connectivity probs with the Axe].. the USB connection to the Axe is not quite as iffy as it used to be so I switched back to the USB - just easier work flow]

I also have a Mackie Onyx 16 ch mixer which has also a 16 out / 2 in firewire AI.

anything mic'd is recorded via the Mackie

all monitoring is via the Mackie

I use the Axe USB straight into the Mac to record but monitor the Axe via 1/4" jacks into the Mackie [so Logic plays back on channels 15/16 and the Axe is jacked into 13/14].

when using the Axe to record [dry and reamping] I use an aggregate interface in the Mac.. when not recording I switch back to just the Mackie on its own..

Heartfeltdawn

ecc83 said:

Both of those are excellent but pricey?

The Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 has your specified I/O and runs well under £200. It will also, I bet beat, certainly equal those others for driver stability and low latency.

Bit OT but I think the Crimson missed a trick in not including ADAT at that price?

Dave

Pricey? I got my Crimson for £300. The quality of the preamps and conversion is much better than the KA6 from my demos. Drivers are pretty similar. My feelings are that the Crimson was really designed for ITB types who aren't going to ever recording a load of external inputs. For me it's pretty close to perfect. 

@drew_fx I was too hungover to reply properly to your message yesterday I've never used the Crimson for reamping as I lack one crucial ingredient: an amp. 

Drew_TNBD

The only thing putting me off the Crimson is the lack of additional line outs. My MOTU doesn't have any, and it's been a bit of an Achilles heel in the past whenever I've wanted to reamp stuff.

@Heartfeltdawn - are the 'speaker b' outputs separately addressable, or do they just tap the main single? IE: Can I use those as regular line outputs and route to them from within my DAW?

So:

DAW 1/2 - Main Left+Right to my monitors
DAW 3/4 - 3 could be a mono reamp signal, 4 could be another signal feed...

Or does it not work that way? Is DAW3/4 meant to be for the headphones?

ecc83

"Pricey? I got my Crimson for £300. The quality of the preamps and conversion is much better than the KA6 from my demos. Drivers are pretty similar. My feelings are that the Crimson was really designed for ITB types who aren't going to ever recording a load of external inputs. For me it's pretty close to perfect."

Please! I am not knocking the Crimson, but I would like to see evidence that its converters are "much" better than the KA6 (dare bet they are the same Cirrus Logics?) . I would concede the KA could do  with 6-10dB more gain on the pre amps but they are quiet enough for acoustic guitar using an SM57.

You got a good deal. I still maintain that at the reviewed price it should have had ADAT!

Dave.

Drew_TNBD

What I don't like about the Crimson is if you connect something to Line 1 and Line 2, then Mic 1 and Mic 2 get ignored. If you connect something to Line 3 and Line 4 then the two instrument inputs get ignored. I'd rather have a switch to choose between the inputs, because I don't want to have to unplug connectors all the damn time.

randomhandclaps

I may be wide of the mark here because I was looking a digital interfaces the other week but not exactly this - Can you not now buy a S/Pdif DI box (as it were) meaning you could keep your existing interface if you're happy with the results and save a wedge of cash?

Drew_TNBD

Hmm I'm not sure. I've not seen anything like that. The key thing though is that I don't want to go through multiple conversion stages. I want to go SPDIF to SPDIF.

Oh and coaxial. Not optical.

HollowAxis

The Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 has all of that, I think.
When I had one I got it specifically for the SPDIF Optical, the drivers didn't cause me any problems, it seemed pretty solid all round.

edit:

Yup it has all of those

SPDIF i/o
2 mic/line inputs
2 line inputs
4 line outputs
2 headphone outputs
MIDI i/o

http://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-6i6

ecc83

Drew_fx said:

Hmm I'm not sure. I've not seen anything like that. The key thing though is that I don't want to go through multiple conversion stages. I want to go SPDIF to SPDIF.

Oh and coaxial. Not optical.

Where are you Drew? Cos if UK you can borrow my KA6 for a month.

Dave.

Drew_TNBD

Hmmm.. I did think about Focusrite. Not sure what the latency side of things is like... must investigate.

HollowAxis

Drew_fx said:

Hmmm.. I did think about Focusrite. Not sure what the latency side of things is like... must investigate.

I didn't have any issues latency wise. Or with drivers etc
I only got rid of it because I upgraded, but it was great while I had it.
Before it I had a Tascam. I'll never buy a Tascam product again after using their drivers and all the crashes I had.

Drew_TNBD

Looks like we've got a Scarlett 8i6 at the office - what luck!! I'm gonna snag that and give it a bash.

Heartfeltdawn

ecc83 said:

Please! I am not knocking the Crimson, but I would like to see evidence that its converters are "much" better than the KA6 (dare bet they are the same Cirrus Logics?) . I would concede the KA could do  with 6-10dB more gain on the pre amps but they are quiet enough for acoustic guitar using an SM57.

You got a good deal. I still maintain that at the reviewed price it should have had ADAT!

Dave.

I have no graphs to produce, merely the listening tests conducted using both units at home along with an Audient ID22. I also had the following knocking around:

Steinberg UR22 (stays with the laptop)

M-Audio Delta 66 using a TC BMC-2 as an external DAC

RME Multiface 1

Previously had also used an RME Babyface (yuck) and Hammerfall 9632. Same amp and monitors throughout. 

When I first upgraded my gear by bringing in the BMC-2, I was stunned by the jump in quality. It really showed how much top end disappeared with the Delta converters. The KA6 wasn't bad at all, better than the Delta on its own, ran the BMC-2 close. The UR22 does sound different to the KA6, no question. RME offers great latency but I hated the sound of both the Babyface and Multiface. The top end simply isn't nice. 

The Audient and Crimson were another step up from the BMC-2. The Audient is a little bit brighter at the top than the Crimson. On Gearslutz there's a general feeling that the Crimson is darker. This suited me fine.  

This gentleman offers some more information on the Crimson.

I would point out that I wasn't looking for 'the best'. On paper and in listening tests, the ID22 was fantastically clear. One of my constant reference tracks in the 1959 recording of Rhapsody in Blue with Bernstein. It's a track I know so bloody well and have owned on vinyl, CD, and tape. The first time going through the Crimson, the detail floored me. If anything, there's even more detail with the ID22 but I didn't want a studio-specific audio interface in the same way that I don't have monitors that are there to pick a mix apart and sound sodding awful for casual listening.

I wanted something that bridged the gap between 'good enough for recording, sounds bloody good for casual listening'. On that criteria alone, the SPL was the winner. 

And it may be possible for improved sound with a better power supply... 

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/828133-musikmesse-spl-crimson-usb-audio-interface-monitor-controller-6.html

I'm more amused at £300 being pricey than outraged because I'm old enough to remember what £300 used to get you! So much choice out there now. 

Drew_TNBD

Ha!

How much was the M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 when it first came out?? That was my first card!

HollowAxis

Heartfeltdawn said:

ecc83 said:

Please! I am not knocking the Crimson, but I would like to see evidence that its converters are "much" better than the KA6 (dare bet they are the same Cirrus Logics?) . I would concede the KA could do  with 6-10dB more gain on the pre amps but they are quiet enough for acoustic guitar using an SM57.

You got a good deal. I still maintain that at the reviewed price it should have had ADAT!

Dave.

I have no graphs to produce, merely the listening tests conducted using both units at home along with an Audient ID22. I also had the following knocking around:

Steinberg UR22 (stays with the laptop)

M-Audio Delta 66 using a TC BMC-2 as an external DAC

RME Multiface 1

Previously had also used an RME Babyface (yuck) and Hammerfall 9632. Same amp and monitors throughout. 

When I first upgraded my gear by bringing in the BMC-2, I was stunned by the jump in quality. It really showed how much top end disappeared with the Delta converters. The KA6 wasn't bad at all, better than the Delta on its own, ran the BMC-2 close. The UR22 does sound different to the KA6, no question. RME offers great latency but I hated the sound of both the Babyface and Multiface. The top end simply isn't nice. 

The Audient and Crimson were another step up from the BMC-2. The Audient is a little bit brighter at the top than the Crimson. On Gearslutz there's a general feeling that the Crimson is darker. This suited me fine.  

This gentleman offers some more information on the Crimson.

I would point out that I wasn't looking for 'the best'. On paper and in listening tests, the ID22 was fantastically clear. One of my constant reference tracks in the 1959 recording of Rhapsody in Blue with Bernstein. It's a track I know so bloody well and have owned on vinyl, CD, and tape. The first time going through the Crimson, the detail floored me. If anything, there's even more detail with the ID22 but I didn't want a studio-specific audio interface in the same way that I don't have monitors that are there to pick a mix apart and sound sodding awful for casual listening.

I wanted something that bridged the gap between 'good enough for recording, sounds bloody good for casual listening'. On that criteria alone, the SPL was the winner. 

And it may be possible for improved sound with a better power supply... 

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/828133-musikmesse-spl-crimson-usb-audio-interface-monitor-controller-6.html

I'm more amused at £300 being pricey than outraged because I'm old enough to remember what £300 used to get you! So much choice out there now. 

You bring up some interesting stuff there, I always equated 'accuracy' with 'pleasurable listening'.
I just wanted to hear what the recordings I love actually sound like, and have a good studio recording system.
And when I got equipment capable of showing me pretty much exactly what stuff sounded like, in some cases, I thought they were not that great.
When you can hear all the holes listening pleasure takes a knock. For me anyway.

Heartfeltdawn

My first soundcard... pretty sure I paid about £170 for that. 

http://www.overclockersonline.net/images/articles/dtt3500/large/livebox.JPG

sweepy

I remember it well, with the fancy 5 1/4" front panel

Heartfeltdawn

@HollowAxis It's the right balance for me. I don't have a room that is beautifully balanced acoustically or loaded with bass traps. I'm not trying to produce albums and the music I like tends to be cobbled together by people in similar environments, people like Kieran Hebden with Four Tet, Tim Hecker, Stars of the Lid etc. I've had my monitors (Silver 5L) for ten years now. They aren't big and bassy but they sound good and have decent accuracy. When it came to finally replacing the Delta 66 soundcard, I bought a load of stuff figuring I'd keep what I liked and send back the stuff I didn't and sell my old gear. The Crimson for me got the balance between 'good enough to record with' and 'really good to listen to'. 

I don't go on charts, graphs, advertised spec. Ears only. Which is why I don't worship at the church of Strymon. 

ecc83

"The Crimson for me got the balance between 'good enough to record with' and 'really good to listen to'."

That's fine H. I am not going to question your personal, subjective choice.

It is simply that converter comparisons are notoriously difficult. The levels must match to a fraction of a dB and very often the choice of device will change with the genre being auditioned. Then, I don't a lot of the "Audiophile Subjectivists" have ever quite recovered from the Great SoS Pre amp Test of a couple of years ago.

Dave.