Studio Recordings!

thomasross20

So this could have gone in Live, Studio & Recording or Music but I'll stick here for now (?).

The covers band I play in recently recorded two tracks at a studio in Edinburgh. We could have paid to get some more mixing/mastering done but we opted to pay up as we think the tracks are good enough for pub demos etc.

Here you go - comments appreciated!

http://tommysixstring.com/

thomasross20

FYI I used my Suhr Pro S4 and Blackstar TVP 260 amp - think the guitar and amp sound pretty good.

I did two improvised takes for the Janis solo - first one was like something out of Beat It, i.e. totally not suited to the track - I'm pleased with the one you can hear

randomhandclaps

Who mixed/produced it?

thomasross20

I would have opted for more tweaks but like I said, the band wanted to pay up. 

Comments? 

Cirrus

Are your singer and Brian Johnson singing about the same sexual encounter from different perspectives?

Definitely good enough for pub demos, there's a nice energy to the performances and your guitar work is really solid - like your tone too. If you want criticism the drummer should work on the timing of his kick drum foot, but it doesn't ruin my ability to enjoy the songs.

thomasross20

Haha I'll ask our singers that question  

Many thanks! 

I'll listen out for the kick drum now you mention it - a good point I'll follow up on... 

Ah, the sound!! People say I need a better amp but that was a Blackstar transistor amp with one mic in front of it! And.... the Suhr Pro S4 sounds amazing!! @hubobulous - that's why I'm gushing about maybe trading the purple PRS for a Modern!

I would have had slightly less reverb on vox, less reverb on guitar solo on ACDC (as well as a little less panning and a few other tweaks, but in general I'm happy with it and it serves the purpose).

Cirrus

thomasross20;836966" said:

...as well as a little less panning...

No mate, the hard panning is awesome! It's bold, makes a statement.

randomhandclaps

OK, it's for pub demos and if I were looking at it I would be judging you as a band, not of the strength of the mix or recording.  None of my negative views really relate to you guys but the general mix is uninspiring and the vocal mix itself is pretty shoddy considering you paid someone (so a professional) to do it.  The mix of the vocal is not great.  The application of pitch correction is ham-fisted, whilst not actually correcting some timing issues either.  The cut and paste of vocal snippets robs it's of any dynamics and give the impression that the singer was really struggling.  Most of all the comping is pretty awful.  The worst example being the chorus of TALPOMH.  The cuts between the lines make it sound incredibly fake.  It's sounds like a back and forth between too identical singers rather than a coherent vocal line.

Like I say these don't neccesarily relate to your band and if they did I wouldn't be so blunt, but as you paid someone that's slightly different territory.  Your are almost always going to listen to other people's mixes and think "Hmmmm, I might have done that differently." .  That isn't what I'm talking about though, I'm talking about basic editing mainly.  You can judge it based on what you paid, how long you and he had, how well you played, how good the singer was on the day and what he had to work with etc.  IF this was an originals project I would say a re-record was needed because I don't think it showcases you guys in the best light but like I say depending on price and purpose (i.e. Pub covers demo) then there's less of a worry.

Sorry if any of that sounded harsh, just genuinely trying to give a view on it that will enable you guys to make decisions in the future.

thomasross20

@randomhandclaps - thanks for the comments - please post the time sections (if you have time!) where you think the dodgy bits are.

FYI there are two singers. No edits were made on the main vocal, those were done in two takes - only edits were done to backing vocals - I think pitch correction was done on 5 notes which didn't feel a lot to me but interested to hear where you thought it went awry. Don't worry about being harsh etc - can only get better based on all comments if we work on things!

Oh no... considering I'm doing my own mixing for my own album I hope that turns out ok....!! 

randomhandclaps

My mistake it was all brilliant.

John_P

The guitar playing is the best thing on those demos by long way imo.

thomasross20

randomhandclaps said:

My mistake it was all brilliant.

No man!! Honest, don't change your mind - I'm not taking things to heart here! Be honest, I appreciate it! And it'll help me for when I mix my own album...!

I only mentioned about time sections because if something sounds funny, I'd like to hear it - maybe I'm blind to it!

Thanks @John_P and @Cirrus!

randomhandclaps

OK, to break it down. 

I completely agree with JP that the guitar playing is the best bit by far, but of course that is interpretable in a few ways isn't it?  The way I would mean it is that to be blunt is that musically it is better than everything else, sharper and tighter, but also superior to the recording it's set into.  The only thing that does let the guitar down is too much reverb pushing it back too far in the solos, which you have pointed out yourself.

When I am talking about vocals I mean ALL vocals, including backing vocals.  There is (to a degree IMO) nothing wrong with the application of pitch correction but I find it confusing when the singer lead vocal is a bit off timing wise that if you were correcting pitch you wouldn't shift them timing wise as by and large experience has taught be the a tight, out of tune vocal will have more impact that an in-tune but 'loose' vocal, unless that is a intention and repeated throughout.  I haven't got time to break everything down phrase by phrase and quite frankly if you are happy then my opinion matters not a jot.

I don't understand the 'It was only two takes' response to comments on the comping and editing.  If it were 'genuinely' one then you could say 'no editing' but whether it was two takes or one hundred then there was a reason for that.  The  'Come on' are either cut and pasted or you have found yourself a mechanic singer (which in it's way is quite cool) but she or they have failed to grasp how the section builds and have magically repeated the same phrasing and dynamics at least 6 times.  It's not impossible I suppose.

What program was used to apply pitch correction and how was it applied?  The question is if the pitch correction is unobtrusive how did I even know you had used it?  Lucky guess?  The thing is when you have spent a long time in studios and baring in mind I was fortunate (or not) to work through the whole post Believe era where it became a formality rather than a choice your ears undoubtedly become attuned to pitched correction devices.  How noticeable the are comes down to how they were applied and how much correction was needed.  In many respects a correction of a few notes is even more noticeable than a light application throughout.  Listen to Oasis' The Importance Of Being Idle for a great example of this.  If you can't hear it on that then yes, you may be blind to it.  A retake is always preferable for the odd notes (providing you're confident your singer can hit it) but as I said in my original response you have to judge it based on the time and chances you had, which you didn't mention.

So do you have two female singers with very similar voices who share lead vocal duties?  If so then I'm sure it comes over better live but on the recording (the chorus of TALPOMH particularly) it translates as bad editing.  IF it is two separate singers then the problem comes down more to bad separation of the voices in the mix.  Personally I'm sat here with a vocal coach who is also listened to it and is also of the opinion it sounds like one singer with bad cuts but who knows, I've only had one coffee today.  In reality though when listening to any recording it is the impression that counts over the back story.

None of it was meant to have a dig.  If you guys had been awful I wouldn't have bothered commenting full stop because I am only too aware that when people usually ask for feedback they are actually looking for people to blow smoke up their arse rather than genuine constructive critique.  My honest belief is that but for either time (which only you know) or the mixing process you guys could have been framed better. 

Again if you had mixed it yourself I would probably have said nothing for similar reasons.  However you paid a professional and IMO, which I will stand by and in my experience of working in the studios of publishing houses that reason dozens of demos a day, that is not a truly professional recording.  Again though judging it fairly comes back to info I don't have, mainly what it cost which is your business, I don't need to know but like anything it is relevant to the product you receive.

thomasross20

Aha, great post - I'm at work and what to break it down properly so will address it when I get the time (might be the weekend). I approach things the German way - I don't want heaps of praise - if something's wrong I want to hear about it and work on it - so that's all appreciated!

I do have a few mins so here goes. From memory I'm pretty sure the "come on" sections weren't copied and pasted but I'll listen out for it (maybe that's a part of the song that needs work then) - maybe we have a robot singer lol. I'm not sure what program was used for pitch shift but the DAW/sequencer was Cubase. 

I'll listen to that Oasis track - keen to hear if I can hear this now  

Yep, two singers who share vox, though one is more the lead singer. Again, will listen to that chorus in the Janis song Man, I'm really worried about my own project now because undoubtedly my mixing wont be as good! And I would never want anybody to hold back on my own work as again, I don't want punches pulled so that I can always improve. 

I don't take it as a dig (what was it I said that made you post that second reply? I'm receptive to criticism!). We got a pretty good mates rates deal  

I'd love to borrow your ears for a day!

Danny1969

Just listening to You shook me, for what you want it will do but if I was being picky I would say

drummer isn't great, not the right pattern for the song, too many bad fills, not a decent hitter, sounds all cymbals. Vocals a bit pitchy and too loud and clean for my liking. Phrasing on the backing vox is clashing with the lead in places 

Your playing is good but your just a bit eager on that intro, maybe could have relaxed a bit. Solo is good, sure he used enough delay though

Love your intro on another piece of my heart. I would prefer less effects on your guitar though. Don't like the tone, sounds all solid state like a POD or something

You might have been better off just doing the whole thing live and capturing a whole performance. This sounds OK and will get you gigs but it's neither one thing or the other, it's not polished enough to compete with a professional recording and it doesn't have the charm and feel of a live recording either

It sounds like a £200 2020 recording and I've done hundreds of em, it's hard to get great results without either the band being tight as feck or the band willing to spend a lot of money

Your the best thing I hear on the recordings 

thomasross20

OK, drums is something a lot of people mention.. I'm not saying anything...

I did rush ACDC a tad at the intro and at the end of the solo, too. Hmm, bummer you thought the tone wasn't great - I thought it sounded great. Maybe I need my ears adjusted lol.

We did try a few live recordings but thought this was better. Might start another topic now as would love to hear others' similar recordings (live and studio) as a reference point - would love that, actually!  

All good stuff and I'll be listening back with these things in mind. Really appreciate you guys listening and taking the time to help me out!

Jalapeno

John_P said:

The guitar playing is the best thing on those demos by long way imo.

This !

Drew_TNBD

I don't want to be too harsh, because I'm far from an expert when it comes to singing...


But listening to You Shook Me... in a few places the vocalists sound like they're singing from the throat too much and don't sound like they're using diaphragmatic control very well - listen to 0:52 with the words "already there..."  the way she kinda gives up on the vowel at the end of there... not nice to listen to. People would probably dance to it and not even catch it in a live set, but recorded.. that kind of thing sticks out like a sore thumb in my honest opinion.

0:57 - the word 'mind' ... sounds strained.

Whoever is singing the 2nd portions of the verses doesn't sound as good as the one singing the first half of the verses to me. She could do with some professional help. It's not that she's sounding nasal... nasality is very often a good thing. But she's sounding strained quite a lot of the time, like she's struggling to hit the notes. I know when I experience that, it's nearly always down to my breathing technique.

Overall... I think the vocals are too clean, and it all sounds very karaoke... sorry, don't mean to be a dick about it! Just can't really soften it any more than that.

Drums didn't really bother me all that much... a bit bog standard, but then again this music is bog standard, so it's to be expected I think.

thomasross20

Thanks, jal!

Drew - good comments on the singing. They're not trained and don't take lessons (though I've suggested it in a nice way). Thanks for pointing out those specific bits - appreciated! 

Love the singing analysis as I try a little myself but I'm dire - and I know it!

Man, drums keep coming up.. that's it, I'm doing a duo acoustic thing and ditching drums lol

Thanks heavens this is only a pub-type affair! 

Dreading the reaction to my own album now lol!!

PolarityMan

thomasross20 said:

Dreading the reaction to my own album now lol!!

I dunno there were a lot of "the guitar was the best thing on it" comments so .......

thomasross20

Thanks though it's more the mixing, timing, drum programming and general production (in addition to the general style which is niche) - anyway that's months away yet