The singing thread

Drew_TNBD

Yeah you're right, I am deliberately amping up the dynamics. You can see I'm only taking the first verse as my lyric base too, so in essence it's a cover and I'm putting my own spin on it. What I'm concerned about really is whether it's actually any good... lol. I'm not trying to be 100% true to the spirit of the original.

Same for the scale... I'm deliberately pushing it in a different direction, but don't know whether it's any good. Need to run it past my singing teacher this week I suppose.

hugbot

Yeah thats fair enough.

Drew_TNBD

You're right though, I should probably really push myself to work on the 1st to 3rd jumps ala pentatonic and maybe do a version where I'm restrained the whole way through.

Sambostar

I think it's good.   I agree the first bit is better.  It sounds a bit like west end stage show singing, but that is basically a compliment on the singing and consistent projection but yeah it does sound a bit scalar and linear.  When the bloke sings it he has a bit of tremolo and brings in a subtle soft richness to it that makes it sound lush.

Edited: God I write some daft bollocks.

As an amateur with a lower baritone voice, I hear stuff like that Puscifer and think Yeah I can nail that, but in reality at that pitch, I just haven't got any control over noise and tone whatsoever, it's just a balls to the wall effort to get the notes out.  I definitely think a capo is your friend, at least at first until your are comfortable, as the noise is just as important, if note more important than the notes.  Drop it down a bit, get something more expressive, turn it up a notch, that would be my approach.

Sambostar

Oh and Drew, I like that song, haven't heard it before, I might give it a crack if you don't mind. 

I seriously think that is the key to getting better, as it's like playing guitar off others and stuff when you are learning guitar, because everyone is so different eh and has a different take on it you learn so much.  In fact it would be quite ace if several people could attempt they same song in the same key at the same pitch, it would throw so much more light on it and open up the learning curve so much faster I reckon for everybody.

Sambostar

So I tried some Ben Harper just now which I haven't before as in my melodrama mind, I figured most of his stuff was too high, it's in a similar sort of vein.  Many people reckon Ben Harper can't sing, but he is exactly about the tone and the 'Not singing'.  It was a total struggle to sing it as it's almost like singing breathing in.  It's a delicate balance struggle between being too nasally and projected or just cracking as well as getting smooth transitions.  It's really quite hard actually to get it to be soft and breathy, it still sounds cracky and nasally fuck sakes.  I think it is a balance of upper chest and nose resonance at the same time and if at any time it goes either way to far or into your head, you lose it.

It's really hard to tune in to try and sing this sort of stuff (This and that Puscifer track) I reckon but it sounds so easy.  I'm gonna practice this.

So you don't sound like you are singing full on with proper technique and massive projection at the West End theatre somewhere have you just tried simply doing impressions?  Seriously, it works.  It's exactly like guitar.  You imitate and imitate and imitate the tone until it starts to come.  I'd start with practicing Si-leeeeeence, the tremolo, the whole bit, imitate it until you get it somewhere in your body where it sounds similar.  He is also doing something with his mouth or throwing his voice back and forth so it sounds phasey and gives it much more texture, it certainly isn't just simple head voice.

https://soundcloud.com/user360616451/bh-1

Fucking hell that sounds awful.  Practice.

PolarityMan

Drew_fx said:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/Horizons (puscifer cover).mp3?dl

Thoughts??

Seems like you lose hold switching syllables during "away" quite often. Way better than i could do though

PolarityMan

Sambostar said:

Oh and Drew, I like that song, haven't heard it before, I might give it a crack if you don't mind. 

I seriously think that is the key to getting better, as it's like playing guitar off others and stuff when you are learning guitar, because everyone is so different eh and has a different take on it you learn so much.  In fact it would be quite ace if several people could attempt they same song in the same key at the same pitch, it would throw so much more light on it and open up the learning curve so much faster I reckon for everybody.

Id have a bash at this but im way behind everyone else in this thread..ive been practing on this instrumental recently (more maynard):

Sambostar

I think it'd be good if everyone had a go at the same song, not quite like solo of the month type stuff and judged, but kind of similar.  Just be interesting to see how different it comes out with everyone's different registers and tones, ears and perceptions and takes on it.

I think it's really hard to be objective on your own singing efforts, especially if no one is openly criticising them.  It's so easy to get caught up in it and think it's marvellous and then hear it again later and cringe that it the absolutely most dire thing ever recorded.

I'm totally neurotic and easily get caught up in the moment and try to self discipline myself but fail badly, it's more obvious to me now that others have really worked at it and some have had training as well.  The thing about that cover Drew just did is that, for full on live electric stuff, which I guess is some of the reason at least why he is trying to develop his voice, that sort of projection will work great and I think maybe his mental emphasis is on the projection and hitting the higher registers.  

Personally, I'm just trying to cling on to and grasp something, anything really so I can pretend to be someone I'm not and go down the pub in summer, lay it on and pull loads of chicks and make them wet their pants rather than just going down as the ginger comedy show.  Also want to try to fill out the frequencies, especially if I start singing with this girl again who has a great, but really high and thinner voice.

Also work on the transitions so it doesn't sound like I'm still 13, but more importantly, get the motivation to develop it and open my ears, really by reading this thread and the like.

Drew_TNBD

PolarityMan said:

Drew_fx said:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/Horizons (puscifer cover).mp3?dl

Thoughts??

Seems like you lose hold switching syllables during "away" quite often. Way better than i could do though

Hmmm, I'm not sure what that means tbh - if you're talking about breathiness on the tail of the note, that is intentional.

Sambostar said:

The thing about that cover Drew just did is that, for full on live electric stuff, which I guess is some of the reason at least why he is trying to develop his voice, that sort of projection will work great and I think maybe his mental emphasis is on the projection and hitting the higher registers. 

Hmm, not strictly. I'm deliberately trying to improve my dynamics - going from quiet to loud. Listening back I think I've got a fair ways to go.

Actually here is an older take of the same song:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/Horizons (puscifer cover)_oldertake.mp3?dl

There are things I prefer about this one over the other one, and vice-versa. It's just about being more accurate I suppose.

A year of lessons will give you the essential building blocks, and then it's about turning that into something unique and part of your own style. I've got a long way to go at the moment and it's depressing when I look at it as one big thing. So I'm trying to break it up into smaller chunks.

Sambostar

That Ben harper stuff is hard to get breathy and soft and listenable.  My voice goes from gravelly to way nasally in a heartbeat and it's hard trying to get a decent accent on it.  I think everyone hates their own voice but it's so easy to be too nasally, or too heady or too chesty for all of us.  It's an extremely delicate balancing act to get a voice that people want to listen to that sounds so simple and honest to do without seemingly trying too hard, although I guess if you practice enough times you can lock into.  But it's like everything in life, that simple stuff that sounds good, that control, must take years to perfect.  Getting the right notes is really only 10% of the struggle.

Sambostar

So I had a go at that Drew.  Granted, it's not very good and I can't remember the tune, but donno, it might help you to visualise messing a bit more, it might .  I'm a bit half cut.  But lie I said, you can sing, it's all about the radness.

https://soundcloud.com/user360616451/wank

Now, in retrospect, that really wasn't much help at all was it.  Bollocks I'm gonna start on the wine now then.

LastMantra

The dust devils swept you away...who wrote that pish?  >:D<

Nah, honestly. Sounds a tad formulaic to me Drewseph. Sounds, to me, like you are thinking about what you have been taught to do rather than getting right into the mood.

I'm in no position to judge, but that's what I think.

PolarityMan

Drew_fx said:

PolarityMan said:

Drew_fx said:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/Horizons (puscifer cover).mp3?dl

Thoughts??

Seems like you lose hold switching syllables during "away" quite often. Way better than i could do though

Hmmm, I'm not sure what that means tbh - if you're talking about breathiness on the tail of the note, that is intentional.

Sambostar said:

The thing about that cover Drew just did is that, for full on live electric stuff, which I guess is some of the reason at least why he is trying to develop his voice, that sort of projection will work great and I think maybe his mental emphasis is on the projection and hitting the higher registers. 

Hmm, not strictly. I'm deliberately trying to improve my dynamics - going from quiet to loud. Listening back I think I've got a fair ways to go.

Actually here is an older take of the same song:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/Horizons (puscifer cover)_oldertake.mp3?dl

There are things I prefer about this one over the other one, and vice-versa. It's just about being more accurate I suppose.

A year of lessons will give you the essential building blocks, and then it's about turning that into something unique and part of your own style. I've got a long way to go at the moment and it's depressing when I look at it as one big thing. So I'm trying to break it up into smaller chunks.

It sounds like your releasing the hold on your vocal chords as you move you mouth to pronounce the "w" which puts the tone back a bit in your throat if you get what I mean, same thing to a lesser extent on "swirling". Listening back though it might be partly not being drip in the pronunciation. Ie it's more like a-wuh-ay than away and that uh sound doesn't have as much squeeze on the vocals.

Sambostar

Not being funny, but this might be culturally significant.  I just watched three pigeons.  The female flew off and chose the one with the higher voice.  But after checking him out flew off again, so that's alright then, but the pigeon with the deeper voice didn't even get a look in.

Drew_TNBD

LastMantra said:

The dust devils swept you away...who wrote that pish?  >:D<

Nah, honestly. Sounds a tad formulaic to me Drewseph. Sounds, to me, like you are thinking about what you have been taught to do rather than getting right into the mood.

I'm in no position to judge, but that's what I think.

This thread isn't about the artistic or creative choices side of singing. It's supposed to be purely about technique, although granted there doesn't seem to be too much interest in it. Just another failed venture on the old fretboard forum I suppose! Ah well.

Cirrus

Balls, I was about to join in but that's taken the wind out of my sails.  )

I've been recording vocals for my solo project over the last few weeks. It's been a pain because of course, no sooner had I started this last phase of recording that my drummer came down with a really bad sore throat and made sure to pass it on to me by coughing in my face while packing up after a gig.

I'd pretty much recovered by last weekend so I did two vocal sessions, then waited all week until last friday to go in and do the loudest, most aggressive song of the bunch which has the highest notes as well. Went in all excited and pumped to perform, was dancing round the mic and everything. Did one take which I was very pleased with, then went to touch up a few lines here and there and suddenly I couldn't hit the high notes any more - the first one I tried came out as a squeek, and I think that blew my confidence, after which I wasn't committing to them and giving them the support they needed. I got through the session, but I should probably have called it a day because my voice was hoarse on Saturday and still not quite right yesterday.

So, over the weekend and today I've tried to avoid speaking unless I have to, to rest my voice and give the vocal chords some time to recover. It's never been a problem before but I don't think I've ever been so serious about singing lead before and I guess I'm almost 31 now and it's probably gonna be a case of babying them a little more from now on.

LastMantra

Drew_fx said:

LastMantra said:

The dust devils swept you away...who wrote that pish?  >:D<

Nah, honestly. Sounds a tad formulaic to me Drewseph. Sounds, to me, like you are thinking about what you have been taught to do rather than getting right into the mood.

I'm in no position to judge, but that's what I think.

This thread isn't about the artistic or creative choices side of singing. It's supposed to be purely about technique, although granted there doesn't seem to be too much interest in it. Just another failed venture on the old fretboard forum I suppose! Ah well.

Fair do's mate. 

I do kind of think that it is relevant to "technique" though. I think that the main thing that is stopping you producing the sound in your head is, for want of a better word, confidence. "being in the zone", if you will. When you can forget about "technique" and just 'sing it from the heart' it will all come together. 

Probably not very helpful? :-?

Scream! Honestly, just scream for a minute. Full volume! See if you can control it in any way. Try just making lots of different noises. Gargling, wheezing, clicking, growling, howling...any and every king of sound you can get out of your mouth.  Take a deep breath in and hold an Aum for as long as you can on the exhale...Try 'vibrating' it. Plus shake/loosen off your body.

Hey what's the worst that could happen!

It does sound pretty good Drew, don't get me wrong!

LastMantra

Still think that a "Dust Devil" sounds like a type of vacuum-cleaner. Must just be me 

hugbot

LastMantra said:

Drew_fx said:

LastMantra said:

The dust devils swept you away...who wrote that pish?  >:D<

Nah, honestly. Sounds a tad formulaic to me Drewseph. Sounds, to me, like you are thinking about what you have been taught to do rather than getting right into the mood.

I'm in no position to judge, but that's what I think.

This thread isn't about the artistic or creative choices side of singing. It's supposed to be purely about technique, although granted there doesn't seem to be too much interest in it. Just another failed venture on the old fretboard forum I suppose! Ah well.

Fair do's mate. 

I do kind of think that it is relevant to "technique" though. I think that the main thing that is stopping you producing the sound in your head is, for want of a better word, confidence. "being in the zone", if you will. When you can forget about "technique" and just 'sing it from the heart' it will all come together. 

Probably not very helpful? :-?

Not really. Thats what every failed x-factor contestant does "Forget practice or technique, I've got **heart**"