Converting a Lemon Drop into a Lucy - PICS!

WezV

DannyP said:

Any tips on sanding right up to the fret board binding, by the way?

1) stick some sandpaper to a square hard block of some kind, make sure it goes right up to the edge.   it can then run right next to the neck without sanding it.  double sided tape works best but you can glue it on too

2) scrape this section with a stanley knife or razor blade. This is the way i would probably go, but i spend a lot of my workshop time with some kind of scraper in my hand, so the first method will probably work best if you are not familiar with scraping techniques.

DannyP

Lovely, many thanks!

TheMoz

bad craic on vintage saying maple cap in their specs,and you find its all mahogany,have you e mailed them ???

DannyP

@TheMoz - Yes I emailed yesterday, but have had no reply yet.

DannyP

Right! Back again!

As documented in the my machine heads thread, JHS were kind enough to send me a brand new Vintage V100, this time it's a non relic version of the lemon drop as it's all they had left in their old more accurate LP shape.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt192/p1eces/Mobile%20Uploads/20140203_132422.jpg

So I sanded off the finish and the stripy veneer to find this...

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt192/p1eces/picture013.jpg

Hmm... not great for my purposes!

For reference, I'm trying to get to this:

 

I tried wood bleacher on the darker treble-side section to try to even the tone out (prior to taking the picture above). The problem with that was that while it did lighten the wood a few shades, it also raised the grain up like no bodies business, as did the 3x washes with clean water recommended on the bottle of wood bleacher. By the time I'd sanded it back to anywhere near smooth, the colour was nearly the same as when I started.

So my options are:

1. Just stain it red and finish it in clear cherry nitro plus (tinted?) clear coat and call it a day - it's still an asymmetrical mismatched top like George's, just a bit different looking.

2. Mask off the bass side stripe area that is darker on the real Lucy, stain that darker with a mix of black and red wood dye.Stain the rest red hoping the two pieces of maple will look a bit more even (a lot of that join will be under the pickguard), and finish it in clear cherry nitro plus (tinted?) clear coat.

3. Maybe veneer over the whole thing with a join on the bass side like the real Lucy? Seems a bit crazy because (a) it's veneering a plain top on top of a plain top (b) I've never applied a veneer before and (c) because it will take up even more of my time and money on this project that should have been finished by the end of last year!

Suggestions gratefully welcomed,

Dan

 

 

WezV

i would try the wood bleach again, in fact it might have worked better in the first instance if you had raised the grain and sanded it back before.  if you try wetting it again you should see it doesn't rise as much this time

you need to make sure you only sand lightly and only with fine grit after wetting.   you want this sanding to remove the torn fibers rather than create more.   i generally wipe down with a damp cloth after 240 grit, then a light sanding with more 240 before progressing with higher grits if needed.  

WezV

thats assuming you still have some left, i wouldn't buy more to try it, but if you have more then its worth a try

DannyP

OK so mask the lighter bit and bleach the darker bit again? I'll give it a try.

Thing is, the darker bit is a not just darker, it's a lot rosier in colour compared to the yellowy lighter bit.

What I was hoping for was to get the two bits to roughly the same lightness/darkness level as it were and hope the dying and spraying evens it out.

 

steamabacus

DannyP said:

So my options are:

1. Just stain it red and finish it in clear cherry nitro plus (tinted?) clear coat and call it a day - it's still an asymmetrical mismatched top like George's, just a bit different looking.

2. Mask off the bass side stripe area that is darker on the real Lucy, stain that darker with a mix of black and red wood dye.Stain the rest red hoping the two pieces of maple will look a bit more even (a lot of that join will be under the pickguard), and finish it in clear cherry nitro plus (tinted?) clear coat.

3. Maybe veneer over the whole thing with a join on the bass side like the real Lucy? Seems a bit crazy because (a) it's veneering a plain top on top of a plain top (b) I've never applied a veneer before and (c) because it will take up even more of my time and money on this project that should have been finished by the end of last year!

Suggestions gratefully welcomed,

Dan

 

 

Option 1 has a lot going for it - 'honest' and 'in the spirit' of the original.

WezV

DannyP said:

OK so mask the lighter bit and bleach the darker bit again? I'll give it a try.

Thing is, the darker bit is a not just darker, it's a lot rosier in colour compared to the yellowy lighter bit.

What I was hoping for was to get the two bits to roughly the same lightness/darkness level as it were and hope the dying and spraying evens it out.

 

its what i would do, but only in the "nothing to lose by trying" frame of mind.     I don't think you will get an exact match but it may get you close enough where 1 or 2 will work reasonably well

DannyP

steamabacus said: 

Option 1 has a lot going for it - 'honest' and 'in the spirit' of the original.

Yes, that's what I thought, plus its less messing about.

This was meant to be a quick, cheap way of getting a guitar gig ready, but the more I get into it, the more I'm getting a bit hung up on making it look as near to the original as possible - including the strip at the top.

I've kind of convinced myself that everybody knows and recognises that strip at the top, which is probably bollox, but that is the madness into which I've descended.

I'll see what another round of bleaching does to the treble side, and make a decision after that. I'm certainly not ruling out Option 1, as it's probably sensible.

Further opinions still welcomed though

mart

DannyP said:

...

I've kind of convinced myself that everybody knows and recognises that strip at the top, which is probably bollox, but that is the madness into which I've descended. 

....

In the tribute game, I don't think it is bollocks. I think if anyone sees a red Les Paul and actually associates that with George, then they're likely to know enough to expect the distinctive stripe at the top. Everybody else is just going to think "why isn't he playing a Gretsch?"

DannyP

mart said:

In the tribute game, I don't think it is bollocks. I think if anyone sees a red Les Paul and actually associates that with George, then they're likely to know enough to expect the distinctive stripe at the top. Everybody else is just going to think "why isn't he playing a Gretsch?"

LOL - yes I know what you mean!

At the moment, I play an SG for much of the second-half. Unless the punters have seen the promo videos for Paperback Writer & Rain that the Beatles made for the Ed Sullivan show, it's doubtful they'll ever have seen George with an SG in his hands. In fact I have countless drunken "experts" asking me why I play an SG.

When I went to see the Let It Be stage show in the West End, their "Lucy" was just a Les Paul Standard in solid red - no stripe, wrong machine heads, wrong truss rod cover - and I'm pretty sure there were no metal pointers under the knobs. AMATEURS! I nearly asked for my money back.....

munky

Dodgy wood descriptions aside, what are these Lemon drops like? Better than an Epiphone?  They certainly look the part...

DannyP

The original Lemon Drop I had felt really nice in the hand, but the relic job was a bit OTT. Sounded great too. I used to own a Gibson LP studio, and there wasn't much in it IMHO.

The second one they sent me had a few QC issues - the switch tip was cracked and the switch kept pinging back from bridge to middle position of it's own accord. A couple of the machine head bushings weren't pushed all the way through either. Bit disappointing given that it was sent directly from JHS after all that dialogue about getting the right guitar.

The second one felt like a new, glossy far eastern instrument, which always feels a bit sterile to me, but it played OK out of the box. I also owned an Epiphone LP custom which was also glossy and sterile, but the Epi lacked zing and resonance and I moved it on quickly. The Vintage was better sounding than the Epi.

In summary, if I were getting an LP for myself to play and I weren't imbroiled in all this George Harrison palaver, I'd seek out an older 2nd hand Lemon Drop on eBay (rather than the newer version or an Epi). I found that a pickguard covers much of the dodgy relic job on the front, so as long as you can put up with the rest of it.

I think that's the one to go for in the circa £200 LP market. If you're spending more than that, then you're into Burnys etc. and that's a whole nother debate!

 

 

xSkarloey

I didn't see this thread first time around, so I've had a quick skim read and I'm glad I did. 

I haven't got a Vintage stockist near me, but having read the reviews and seen the vids I have been close to buying a Lemon Drop online on a couple of occasions. One selling point for me was the stated inclusion of a 'proper' maple cap as opposed to the usual paper thin veneer,  but your thread has put that claim in doubt for me. 

Anyway, when I eventually decided post-Xmas that this would fulfil my Les Paul GAS needs, I suddenly find that so far as a lot of online retailers go the supply of Lemon Drops and V100s in general is not as prolific as it was a year or even six months ago. 

So anyway, long story short but looks like I'll just save for a Gibbo after all. 

Good luck with the rest of your project. Keep us updated! 

DannyP

I put down a coat of water based red stain, and it covered the join quite well, so I decided to go with Option 2.

I then masked off the area I wanted to darken and stained it a mix of red and black. I tried to suggest a different grain pattern with the brush strokes, but that didn't really survive the sanding back process.

Before sanding

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt192/p1eces/Mobile%20Uploads/20140218_095148.jpg

and after

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt192/p1eces/Mobile%20Uploads/20140218_100244.jpg

I've ordered trans cherry and tinted gloss nitro lacquer from Manchester Guitar Tech, so I'll crack on once they arrive.

 

WezV

yeah, looks like that will work fine with a trans red over the top.  I might be tempted to lighten the black slightly more and apply another layer of cherry stain first  as you won't know how nice your contrast works till you spray some lacquer.... but definitely on the right track

DannyP

Cheers @WezV , I've lightened the black and gone over the lighter section again too.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt192/p1eces/Mobile Uploads/20140218_140929-1.jpg

When you say add another layer of cherry stain, do you mean to the lighter part only, or over the whole lot?

WezV

I was suggesting to do another stain over the whole lot just to make sure the dark section isn't too different to the light.  although it is looking just about there for me now and i think the trans lacquer should take care of the rest