IT Jobs/Recruitment

bobblehat

joneve said:

Fuck. Literally 2 months too late. We were looking for a developer to take on the role of developing our software so we can get rid of the outsourcing we currently use (which is ok, but limits us a bit).

There definitely seems to be a shortage of decent developers about at the mo.

LoFi

Obv a bit late to the party, but I'd second the LinkedIn thing - pretty much every approach I've had in the last 8 or so years has been through there, including both my current job and my previous one. My boss said one of the reasons I was asked to interview was that he'd looked at my profile (after a recruiter sent him a CV) and saw photos of me presenting at several conferences.

mellowsun

bobblehat said:

There definitely seems to be a shortage of decent developers about at the mo.

True, also some employers' intimidating lists of requirements can put people off applying - can be less hassle to stay put. 

frankus

Lots of jobsites - put the cv on there, jobsite, jobserve, totaljobs, cwjobs, linkedin definitely
also get on github and commit code (people like to look at examples)
also join groups on linked in
also join stackexchange (they do jobs) but also contribute - this equates to points and you can link from jobsites and linked in to prove knowledge ... good employees in the city look for these things.

always be learning new stuff, in your spare time learn protocols and mark-up languages (yaml,xml,xslt,soap,html,css), learn infrastructure (docker, aws), the testing and the development and deployment tools of the day (rcov, develcover, puppet, chef, jenkins, gerrit, crucible), investigate newer languages like go and dabble in all the core modules, common modules and frameworks in your tech and others DB, LDAP, HTTP, SSH, etc and rails, django, symphony, node, grails. Know the cool apps - NoSql, Hadoop, Message buses, Servlet Containers, Databases (at least mariadb, postgres, oracle) and  finally know the methodologies Scrum, Prince2, ITIL - have an awareness at least of the goals and stages and know the software to go with them Trac, Jira, Serena etc

I read an interesting article the other day about how most employees switch off after 9 months in a job, it's important not to -- or you stagnate and your employer will notice that. I went from junior to software developer in 6 months and changed jobs to become a senior developer (after 18 months as a developer - and took a £10k payrise), then became a consultant (another £10k after 18 months), then became a contractor (after a year, took a hit at first cos it was the recession). I was enjoying contracting but a 6 year stint was enough to take the sheen off things (great people, great pay - lousy tech, poor business structure),

I used to think I needed change because it helped keep people at a distance, but the truth is: it is inspiring - the fear, the uncertainty, the doubt, the confusion those are all good things that keep my mind active.

So my advice is "tool up"

Phil_aka_Pip

mellowsun said:

bobblehat said:

There definitely seems to be a shortage of decent developers about at the mo.

True, also some employers' intimidating lists of requirements can put people off applying - can be less hassle to stay put. 

I've seen lists of requirements that would take 10 years in the business to acquire, but the ad. clearly implies they're after someone who graduated 3 years ago or less :-O

dern

mellowsun said:

bobblehat said:

There definitely seems to be a shortage of decent developers about at the mo.

True, also some employers' intimidating lists of requirements can put people off applying - can be less hassle to stay put. 

Always has been, most of them are shite.

guitargeek62

Phil_aka_Pip;951305" said:

mellowsun said:



bobblehat said:



There definitely seems to be a shortage of decent developers about at the mo.True, also some employers' intimidating lists of requirements can put people off applying - can be less hassle to stay put. 





I've seen lists of requirements that would take 10 years in the business to acquire, but the ad. clearly implies they're after someone who graduated 3 years ago or less :-O

Depends how lucky you get in those first few years; I've managed to stumble into working on, and then lead, a ground-up corporate transformation initiatives on all aspects of my firm (leading FMU). This is far from the norm though!

CabbageCat

guitargeek62 said:

...I've managed to stumble into working on, and then lead, a ground-up corporate transformation initiatives on all aspects of my firm (leading FMU)...

For those that don't speak corporate jargonese this means, "I'm the one who talks to the delivery guys on the intercom when the receptionist is at lunch."

eSully

dern;951899" said:

mellowsun said:



bobblehat said:



There definitely seems to be a shortage of decent developers about at the mo.True, also some employers' intimidating lists of requirements can put people off applying - can be less hassle to stay put. 





Always has been, most of them are shite.

Two sides to the story. We are advertising for two developers and the quality is not walking through the door. Some candidates for senior developer jobs can't do basic Sql joins. CV's full of BS. It becomes a case of whether to hire someone for the sake of hiring someone or wait on. Pay expectations from decent graduates are very high now as well. No one wants to start on 21/22k anymore so any decent grads hit for reading/London as they want to work for cool companies like Facebook/Google or some start up. If you are one of those companies and have the luxury to pick and choose they can put in whatever intimidating lists they want.

In reality I think it's gonna be a short term shortage. Give it another ten years and the market for developers will be completely saturated cause so many kids code at school/at home now and may keep it up as a career

guitargeek62

@CabbageCat - I wish I had access to levels that high!

CabbageCat

eSully said:

In reality I think it's gonna be a short term shortage. Give it another ten years and the market for developers will be completely saturated cause so many kids code at school/at home now and may keep it up as a career

"They" have been saying that for decades. I think it might be less of a thing nowadays since kids seem to prefer tablets to desktops. Tablets do not good dev platforms make.

dern

CabbageCat said:

eSully said:

In reality I think it's gonna be a short term shortage. Give it another ten years and the market for developers will be completely saturated cause so many kids code at school/at home now and may keep it up as a career

"They" have been saying that for decades. I think it might be less of a thing nowadays since kids seem to prefer tablets to desktops. Tablets do not good dev platforms make.

Besides, learning to code through trivial examples at home does not lead to someone being capable of commercial development... not by a hell of a long way. The enthusiasm for it definitely helps but it isn't enough. The ones who go on to train and learn how to do it properly will be a very small subset compared to the huge number who did a website once for uncle bob.

GuyBoden

dern said:

CabbageCat said:

eSully said:

In reality I think it's gonna be a short term shortage. Give it another ten years and the market for developers will be completely saturated cause so many kids code at school/at home now and may keep it up as a career

"They" have been saying that for decades. I think it might be less of a thing nowadays since kids seem to prefer tablets to desktops. Tablets do not good dev platforms make.

Besides, learning to code through trivial examples at home does not lead to someone being capable of commercial development... not by a hell of a long way. The enthusiasm for it definitely helps but it isn't enough. The ones who go on to train and learn how to do it properly will be a very small subset compared to the huge number who did a website once for uncle bob.

I've worked in Software Dev since the 1990's (before HTML was popular), the exceptional developers I've worked with are exceptional people in their field, it's more than just getting a Computer Science degree or training or experience, though that helps enormously, there are people who just seem to have the right brain topography for the Software Development.

Working in Software Dev, you must have met these type of people.

dern

GuyBoden said:

dern said:

CabbageCat said:

eSully said:

In reality I think it's gonna be a short term shortage. Give it another ten years and the market for developers will be completely saturated cause so many kids code at school/at home now and may keep it up as a career

"They" have been saying that for decades. I think it might be less of a thing nowadays since kids seem to prefer tablets to desktops. Tablets do not good dev platforms make.

Besides, learning to code through trivial examples at home does not lead to someone being capable of commercial development... not by a hell of a long way. The enthusiasm for it definitely helps but it isn't enough. The ones who go on to train and learn how to do it properly will be a very small subset compared to the huge number who did a website once for uncle bob.

I've worked in Software Dev since the 1990's (before HTML was popular), the exceptional developers I've worked with are exceptional people in their field, it's more than just getting a Computer Science degree or training or experience, though that helps enormously, there are people who just seem to have the right brain topography for the Software Development.

Working in Software Dev, you must have met these type of people.

I've been a developer since I graduated in the early 90s and while I do more of a management role now I still spend roughly half my time developing and designing. While I agree that you do need a certain way of thinking to be able to (or want to) do the job in the first place it doesn't produce reliable results without the self-discipline that results from training and/or experience. Having this experience also tends to result in not only the ability to seek out new solutions to problems as we all should but have the experience to be able to apply them in a way that reduces future risk. All imo, naturally.

GuyBoden

dern said:

GuyBoden said:

dern said:

CabbageCat said:

eSully said:

In reality I think it's gonna be a short term shortage. Give it another ten years and the market for developers will be completely saturated cause so many kids code at school/at home now and may keep it up as a career

"They" have been saying that for decades. I think it might be less of a thing nowadays since kids seem to prefer tablets to desktops. Tablets do not good dev platforms make.

Besides, learning to code through trivial examples at home does not lead to someone being capable of commercial development... not by a hell of a long way. The enthusiasm for it definitely helps but it isn't enough. The ones who go on to train and learn how to do it properly will be a very small subset compared to the huge number who did a website once for uncle bob.

I've worked in Software Dev since the 1990's (before HTML was popular), the exceptional developers I've worked with are exceptional people in their field, it's more than just getting a Computer Science degree or training or experience, though that helps enormously, there are people who just seem to have the right brain topography for the Software Development.

Working in Software Dev, you must have met these type of people.

I've been a developer since I graduated in the early 90s and while I do more of a management role now I still spend roughly half my time developing and designing. While I agree that you do need a certain way of thinking to be able to (or want to) do the job in the first place it doesn't produce reliable results without the self-discipline that results from training and/or experience. Having this experience also tends to result in not only the ability to seek out new solutions to problems as we all should but have the experience to be able to apply them in a way that reduces future risk. All imo, naturally.

I wish we were all equal, but unfortunately we do not possess equal abilities and some people are predisposed genetically to excel at certain things, it's just the way of the genetic lottery. We've got to make the most of what we have been bestowed.  

LoFi

eSully said:

Pay expectations from decent graduates are very high now as well. No one wants to start on 21/22k anymore so any decent grads hit for reading/London as they want to work for cool companies like Facebook/Google or some start up.

I started on £22K as a new grad at IBM in 2001, which was good but not exceptional. I know salaries haven't kept pace with inflation, but I'm not surprised a decent graduate wants to start on more than that these days! (£22K in 2001 is about £33K now).

frankus

GuyBoden;952811" said:

dern said:



GuyBoden said:






dern said:



CabbageCat said:



eSully said:

In reality I think it's gonna be a short term shortage. Give it another ten years and the market for developers will be completely saturated cause so many kids code at school/at home now and may keep it up as a career












"They" have been saying that for decades. I think it might be less of a thing nowadays since kids seem to prefer tablets to desktops. Tablets do not good dev platforms make.










Besides, learning to code through trivial examples at home does not lead to someone being capable of commercial development... not by a hell of a long way. The enthusiasm for it definitely helps but it isn't enough. The ones who go on to train and learn how to do it properly will be a very small subset compared to the huge number who did a website once for uncle bob.





I've worked in Software Dev since the 1990's (before HTML was popular), the exceptional developers

I've worked with are exceptional people in their field, it's more than

just getting a Computer Science degree or training or experience,

though that helps enormously, there are people who just seem to have the right brain

topography for the Software Development.



Working in Software Dev, you must have met these type of people.










I've been a developer since I graduated in the early 90s and while I do more of a management role now I still spend roughly half my time developing and designing. While I agree that you do need a certain way of thinking to be able to (or want to) do the job in the first place it doesn't produce reliable results without the self-discipline that results from training and/or experience. Having this experience also tends to result in not only the ability to seek out new solutions to problems as we all should but have the experience to be able to apply them in a way that reduces future risk. All imo, naturally.

I wish we were all equal, but unfortunately we do not possess equal abilities and some people are predisposed genetically to excel at certain things, it's just the way of the genetic lottery. We've got to make the most of what we have been bestowed.  

You haven't read The Myth Of Talent, then?

eSully

LoFi;952871" said:

eSully said:Pay expectations from decent graduates are very high now as well. No one wants to start on 21/22k anymore so any decent grads hit for reading/London as they want to work for cool companies like Facebook/Google or some start up.












I started on £22K as a new grad at IBM in 2001, which was good but not exceptional. I know salaries haven't kept pace with inflation, but I'm not surprised a decent graduate wants to start on more than that these days! (£22K in 2001 is about £33K now).

good money for a grad at the time. I started on 18k around then with a start up and thought I'd won the lotto . Unfortunately my departments hands are tied. We can only offer the standard and good grads are not interested. Too low so I agree with you.

I stand by thinking there'll be a lot of developers in the future. I see a lot of interest in mobile app/web design and such. Although it would appear JavaScript is king these days with frameworks like angular, node ja. That's what kids are learning and interested in. Old farts like us shouldn't be out of a job though as none of these young kids will be wanting to maintain some old VB6 apps that there's no money in the budget to rewrite

musteatbrain

Indeed scrapes jobsites and employer careers pages regardless of whether they ask or not. It has some dead links because of this but it can be great at finding jobs. An advanced search with 'excluding agencies' is s good option for him to try.

Most larger companies use an applicant tracking system to post their vacancies on their website. Usually they are cloud based software as service things which require a URL redirect from the company's main site. When this happens the careers pages are usually found at a URL very similar to the companies main URL address. E.g www.joebloggs.com will use www.jobs.joebloggs.com or careers.joebloggs.com.

With this in mind you can use a wild card URL search in Google in Google for pages with careers. or jobs. in the URL
https://support.google.com/customsearch/answer/71826?hl=en
Then combine it with job specific keywords such as Java developer or whatever is appropriate and get search results for jobs others may miss