JCA22H FX loop and Boss Pedals

Marktigere1

Just a heads up.

I run a DD7, DM2W and a CH1 in the FX loop of a JCA22H.

Played round a mates at the weekend and all sounded great.

The DM2W should get particular mention as its sounds brilliant with the JCA, either clean or crunchy.

Thought I would mention as the loop on the JCA22 does get the odd mention on forums.

Really happy with my setup.

Cheers

Mark

PS.  Crunch channel gain on 1 and Overdrive channel on 3 in case anyone was wondering.

joeyowen

Good to hear, always been tempted by Jet City and you're not helping!

ICBM

The critical thing is how they behave as the channel masters (not gain) go up. The loop in the JCA22H is post-master so the loop level is directly affected by them.

With some amps like this they can be entirely happy at bedroom/low practice levels, but at a gig you can run into pedal headroom issues and at best they become dirtier and overly compressed, and at worst sound awful.

The Mesa Rectifier series is exactly like this - you can get around it on the Dual Rec and the Trem-o-verb because the FX send level is variable, but on the Rectoverb it's fixed and is a problem with Boss delay pedals.

digitalscream

Marktigere1 said:

PS.  Crunch channel gain on 1 and Overdrive channel on 3 in case anyone was wondering.

As @ICBM says, it's the volume that's critical on the JCA22H.

On the JCA50H/JCA100H the loop is right before the tone stack, so it's the gain that matters in that case.

Marktigere1

I have run them with the Jettenuator and masters on 6/7 and they were okay.

I assume when using an attenuator the pedals still see the 'hot' signal coming from the masters?

ICBM

Marktigere1 said:

I have run them with the Jettenuator and masters on 6/7 and they were okay.

I assume when using an attenuator the pedals still see the 'hot' signal coming from the masters?

Yes - in that case it's fine.

In case you wondered, I was expecting this thread to be about it being a problem! - a friend of mine has a Rectoverb which had exactly that issue with a Boss delay, it sounded fine at low volume but not at gigs. I fixed it by lowering the signal level at the FX send and got him to just turn the Output Level (which comes after the loop on the Mesa) up further.

Marktigere1

Thanks for the info.

It is worth me checking at full volume though as the attenuator only sounds at its best around 6/7.

Might look at a line shifter still though as the DM2 sounds so good I would hate it not to be at its best at much higher volumes.

Cheers

Mark

Marktigere1

Its not fine.

Have found above MV of 5 produces nasty spikes.  DM2 not happy nor is the CH1.  DD7 seems okay.

Need to look at taming the FX loop methinks.

guitarfishbay

Would a DD20 solve this? I think it can work at line or instrument level. Not sure if it will do DM2w sounds as well but otherwise should cover same tones as the DD7. Though if you use both delays at the same time it won't work.

guitarfishbay

Also thinking about it TC Toneprint pedals have headroom for line signal IIRC

digitalscream

Marktigere1 said:

Might look at a line shifter still though as the DM2 sounds so good I would hate it not to be at its best at much higher volumes.

Don't. Line shifters sound terrible with the Jet City amps, so I'm told (by a number of people).

For what it's worth, I've never had the volume on a Jet City amp above 5.5, and that's where the JCA22H starts to run out of headroom anyway.

guitarfishbay said:

Also thinking about it TC Toneprint pedals have headroom for line signal IIRC

That's what I used (various Flashbacks), sounded great. I also had a Digitech Timebender which worked perfectly, too.

Marktigere1

guitarfishbay said:

Would a DD20 solve this? I think it can work at line or instrument level. Not sure if it will do DM2w sounds as well but otherwise should cover same tones as the DD7. Though if you use both delays at the same time it won't work.

Thanks, did consider the DD20 before getting the DM2W and DD7.

Unfortunately I do use them at the same time.  Sound is epic.

Cheers

Mark

Marktigere1

digitalscream said:

Marktigere1 said:

Might look at a line shifter still though as the DM2 sounds so good I would hate it not to be at its best at much higher volumes.

Don't. Line shifters sound terrible with the Jet City amps, so I'm told (by a number of people).

Bugger, this was my next port of call.

I love the JCA22 but this FX loop issue is a real pain.

The DM2, DD7 and CH1 sound pants into the front of the driven channel just to add insult to injury.

Cheers for the heads up.

Mark

Teetonetal

How about the morley fx loop fixer thing? 

http://www.morleypedals.com/delc.html

digitalscream

@Marktigere1 - seriously, consider a TC Triple Flashback (or just a pair of Flashbacks - cheap second-hand). You can make them sound like just about anything with the Toneprint editor, and they work brilliantly in any loop because they're designed to handle signals even hotter than line level.

Marktigere1

digitalscream said:

@Marktigere1 - seriously, consider a TC Triple Flashback (or just a pair of Flashbacks - cheap second-hand). You can make them sound like just about anything with the Toneprint editor, and they work brilliantly in any loop because they're designed to handle signals even hotter than line level.

Thanks.  Only problem is that you would have to pull the DM2W from my dead hand before I would give it up :-S

Why does the JCA22 have to sound so bloody good otherwise I'd get rid 

digitalscream

The alternative, given that the drop in signal level that you need is so small, is to put a volume pedal set to a slight cut before your delay pedals, and make up the difference with your channel volumes. You'll get an increase in the noise floor, but I doubt that'd be significant enough to notice.

Marktigere1

digitalscream said:

The alternative, given that the drop in signal level that you need is so small, is to put a volume pedal set to a slight cut before your delay pedals, and make up the difference with your channel volumes. You'll get an increase in the noise floor, but I doubt that'd be significant enough to notice.

That sounds like a plan, thanks.

Was there a pedal that did something similar?  GE7?

digitalscream

Marktigere1 said:

digitalscream said:

The alternative, given that the drop in signal level that you need is so small, is to put a volume pedal set to a slight cut before your delay pedals, and make up the difference with your channel volumes. You'll get an increase in the noise floor, but I doubt that'd be significant enough to notice.

That sounds like a plan, thanks.

Was there a pedal that did something similar?  GE7?

Generally, Boss pedals won't handle the line-level signal (you'll get clipping). On the other hand, the Boss FV500L should do.

Marktigere1

Thanks again.

Is the Custom 22 a different sounding beast or would that be a serious alternative to the JCA22?

I gather the loop is more pedal friendly?

digitalscream

Marktigere1 said:

Thanks again.

Is the Custom 22 a different sounding beast or would that be a serious alternative to the JCA22?

I gather the loop is more pedal friendly?

Yes, the loop is more pedal-friendly, but it's a very different animal altogether - the crunch channel is replaced by a "proper" clean channel, and the drive channel is more British-sounding.