Amps, Headphones and Confusion

Gruffenheisen

Firstly, apologies as this is my first post and quite long as well as asking for advice. Hopefully will be able to contribute more in future!

I've decided it's time to get a more suitable amp after being stuck with a Vox modelling amp and a Marshall Valvestate stack, neither of which are what I want for tone/practicality reasons.

The amp will only be used at home and due to my family situation will more often than not be used via headphones - so an emulated output is a massive plus point.

I generally play a lot of rock/metal and have a decent number of pedals, so the onboard distortion isn't essential but I would still like something useable.

This lead me to a choice between the HT-5R or a DSL5C.

However, after doing a bit of research the HT-20/40 sound far more appealing in terms of sound and options but don't have a dedicated headphone out.

This lengthy pre-amble leads to me two questions.

1) What kind of headphone amp/mixer would I require to run from the emulated out and is there any point? Ie. Would I lose the emulated benefits by running it though an amp/mixer?

2) Should I just suck it up and get one of the 5 watters (or any other recommendations people may have)?

paulmapp8306

If your only using at home - and mostly via headphones I wouldnt bother with an amp personally - Id just got some form of modelling unit.   I wount see anything wrong with the Vox amp you have already/  Whats the problem with that?

 If you definitely want an amp though (or ties when you CAN play without phones), yet your still mostly using phones - get an amp with a dedicated headphone out. The little Yamaha's are well thought of. 

Gruffenheisen

I would like to be able to play through the speaker at times and also would like something with valves in it as I find the tone on the Vox to be ok but nothing groundbreaking - plus the headphone out doesn't sound the greatest.

Will have a look at the Yamaha's though - cheers.

crunchman

I've also heard good things about the Yamaha THRs.

Someone I know has one of the Blackstar ones and really rates it:
https://www.blackstaramps.com/ranges/idcore-beam

Evildurka

Buy an evh 5150 50w. Tone for days good volume control and headphone socket on the back which sounds good. Also what cans are you planning using?

Gruffenheisen

Like the look of the EVH but it's a lot more than I want to spend.

Not really looked at headphones yet - while I'm leeching advice any on decent headphones would be much appreciated.

Liking the look of the Yamahas - think I may end up with 2 new amps!

ecc83

The HT-20 with a headphone amp or mixer (or AI, is computer recording on the cards?) would be the more flexible option from the HT-5.

Running the EM out through a mixer etc will not change the voicing (tho' a mixer will have EQ if you want it)

The 20 also has the option of running just as a pre amp, pulling out the speaker jack turns off the output valves so whilst you are using cans (90% of the time?) you are "saving" the EL34s and few pennies, around 35W, on the lekky bill!

I cannot of course comment on the other amplifiers mentioned.

Dave.

ICBM

The newer HT-5R is much more similar to the HT-20 than the old HT-5 is, so if you liked the sound of the 20 I would go for that. I think it's just a much better-sounding amp than the HT-5.

Any other amp with an emulated line out will work via a headphone amp, or even an old hi-fi amp with a headphone output. It does have to be emulated though, since headphones are essentially small hi-fi speakers.

Why any guitar amps were made with un-emulated headphone jacks I really don't know, but for decades they were! And always sound terrible.

Gruffenheisen

Cheers Dave. Unlikely to be any recording so a mixer/hp amp will be all I'm looking for.

ecc83

Question ICBM et al. Which amplifier manufacturer was the first to fit an emulated output on anything? Amp or pedal?

I have known of "guitar amps" for nigh on 60 years but only found out about "emulation" some 10 or so years ago.

Dave/.

ecc83

Just thought Gruff'! You COULD save a lot of dosh by just buying a Dual HT pedal and the HP  amp!

Got the valve, the volts AND the EM output!

Dave.

ICBM

ecc83 said:

Question ICBM et al. Which amplifier manufacturer was the first to fit an emulated output on anything? Amp or pedal?

I have known of "guitar amps" for nigh on 60 years but only found out about "emulation" some 10 or so years ago.

I'm not sure if it was the first on an amp/preamp/pedal, but the first I remember was the Marshall JMP-1 rack preamp in about 1992. Before that there had been a few products like the Palmer and Marshall load boxes with emulated outputs, in the very late 80s.

thecolourbox

ecc83 said:

Just thought Gruff'! You COULD save a lot of dosh by just buying a Dual HT pedal and the HP  amp!

Got the valve, the volts AND the EM output!

Dave.

Definitely something I'm considering for a quiet home set up (hence my question the other day)

ecc83

ICBM said:

ecc83 said:

Question ICBM et al. Which amplifier manufacturer was the first to fit an emulated output on anything? Amp or pedal?

I have known of "guitar amps" for nigh on 60 years but only found out about "emulation" some 10 or so years ago.

I'm not sure if it was the first on an amp/preamp/pedal, but the first I remember was the Marshall JMP-1 rack preamp in about 1992. Before that there had been a few products like the Palmer and Marshall load boxes with emulated outputs, in the very late 80s.

Hmm, so it COULD have been originated by the Marshall then Blackstar designers? Obviously not patentable or else someone got a severe bollocking!

Dave.

FX_Munkee

My Yamaha THR10 gets so much more use than I thought it would, it's just so convenient in a family home scenario.

olafgarten

I'd get a modelling unit and then plug that into your marshall when you want to use speakers.

ICBM

ecc83 said:

Hmm, so it COULD have been originated by the Marshall then Blackstar designers? Obviously not patentable or else someone got a severe bollocking!

The Palmer stuff definitely came before the Marshall as far as I know. The first Marshall product with it was the SE-100 attenuator/load box/speaker emulator - I've heard that the circuitry was nicked, but I haven't seen the schematics so I can't comment. To me the Marshall sounds far better though - quite a good bit of kit even today.

This was definitely in the era that the BS chaps were working at Marshall so it wouldn't surprise me if some of the concepts 'migrated' with them .

The Hughes & Kettner Red Box must have originated about this time or slightly later too.

Jeremiah

What about the Sansamp?

ICBM

Jeremiah said:

What about the Sansamp?

It says late '90/early '91 on their website. It does look like a lot of people independently came up with the same idea at around the same time. It just puzzles me why it took so long - it's patently obvious that a DI'd guitar amp without emulation sounds dreadful.

I had a Marshall Studio 15 amp - built in the late 80s - which had a nice isolated, balanced XLR DI output built in… but with no emulation so it sounded like total garbage if you made the mistake of connecting it to a desk! The Fender red-knob 'The Twin' likewise. I modded my Studio 15 by simply adding a cap across the DI to take off the worst of the harshness, but it was still never good.

uncledick

Just to add in to the headphone discussion, if you don't have an emulated output then consider using communications e.g. ham radio phones.  They are designed for voice transmissions and much more like a guitar amp speaker in terms of frequency response.  Haven't looked recently but a while ago you could buy buy ex-air traffic control headsets for a fiver.  Just cut off the standard plug which includes the mic and fit a 1/4" jack.

musteatbrain

IMHO if you could stretch to a second hand Laney IRT Studio and a cheap cab, you'd probably be very happy with it.