hmm...i think i've made a big mistake

samzadgan

for the last month i've been loving my ceriatone matchless lightning amp...alway going straight into the amp and playing clean and noodling. its really beautiful for clean tones. Yesterday, i started playing around with pedal...and as expected delays and verbs are great and just makes the clean even better...but...the dirt pedals...shit!...literally sounds like shit! Every pedal i put into this amp sounds crappy...really thin and as soon as the gain gets a little high there is this fizzy high end that comes with it...and i can't dial it out. 

The best i've been able to get is using the amp with master volume all the way down and the volume up, so i get some natural preamp breakup, and this seems to tame the high a bit, and with the dirt pedals it turns out a bit thicker...but still...its not great.

the pedals btw...are all great through my other amps...all except one is Black Arts which are known for having a lot of bottom end and thick sound.

When I was searching for this home amp one of my main criteria was that the amp would have EL34's because i've always found EL34 amps sounded better with the pedals and dirt sound i liked...this amp has EL84's and i went against my better judgement and experience and bought it...now, I'm thinking i made a mistake.

Now...either I go into the rabbit hole of trying to find the dirt pedal that will work well with this amp...or i just get rid of it and buy another amp...

thoughts...opinions...recommendations...?

octatonic

I've tried EL84's so many times and I've concluded that they don't have enough bottom end for what I want to do.

These days it is EL34's or 6L6's and nothing else.

I'd get rid of and try to get the right amp, rather than forever trying to put in something that simply isn't there.

ICBM

Does the amp have a bright cap on the volume control? That would explain it sounding thin and fizzy with the volume down and the master up, and not (or less) the other way round.

It doesn't have much to do with the power valve type. There is a bit of a difference but not enough to explain a big difference like that, and not if it depends on the amp settings anyway - as long as the final volume is about the same.

samzadgan

ICBM said:

Does the amp have a bright cap on the volume control? That would explain it sounding thin and fizzy with the volume down and the master up, and not (or less) the other way round.

It doesn't have much to do with the power valve type. There is a bit of a difference but not enough to explain a big difference like that, and not if it depends on the amp settings anyway - as long as the final volume is about the same.

how can i tell that?

samzadgan

@ICBM

ICBM

Yes, it has a bright cap - the 100pF cap on the volume control.

If you remove that it should sound normal with pedals. The only problem may be that it won't sound as good clean - if so, you need to put the cap on a switch so you can choose… exactly like Fender did on the bigger Blackface and Silverface amps.

digitalscream

octatonic said:

I've tried EL84's so many times and I've concluded that they don't have enough bottom end for what I want to do.

These days it is EL34's or 6L6's and nothing else.

I'd get rid of and try to get the right amp, rather than forever trying to put in something that simply isn't there.

I used to think exactly this, until I tried the Jet City JCA22H - 2 x EL84, and the low end is positively monstrous.

samzadgan

ICBM said:

Yes, it has a bright cap - the 100pF cap on the volume control.

If you remove that it should sound normal with pedals. The only problem may be that it won't sound as good clean - if so, you need to put the cap on a switch so you can choose… exactly like Fender did on the bigger Blackface and Silverface amps.

so i just clip one of its legs off? 

and if i still don't like it, can i just solder the leg together again??

dumb questions i know...

gordiji

Try a klon clone or a compressor. Love the amp for what it is.

ICBM

samzadgan said:

so i just clip one of its legs off? 

and if i still don't like it, can i just solder the leg together again??

Yes, exactly.

samzadgan

ok will give that a go over the weekend....thanks @ICBM...

samzadgan

octatonic said:

I've tried EL84's so many times and I've concluded that they don't have enough bottom end for what I want to do.

These days it is EL34's or 6L6's and nothing else.

I'd get rid of and try to get the right amp, rather than forever trying to put in something that simply isn't there.

im gonna give this bright cap a go...if not...i think this is what i'll end up doing man.

paulmapp8306

The only EL84 amp Ive half likes is the Suhr Badger - and the drive on tht is kind of fizzy, though its thick as well so can be made to work.  Every other amp....nope.  Not even really good ones that are recommended (Carr Lincoln - horrible).  6v6s seem similar to me as well - kind of as if EL84 is to EL34 as 6v6 is to 6L6.

Im not that keen on EL34s either.  I like the round bottom end of the 6L6.  I know its more about design that tube type, but I had an older VHT 50ST, that had a 6L6/EL34 switch.  EL34s were stock but I much preferred it with 6L6s.

My choices in go to order are 6L6, KT66/KT88, 6v6, EL34, EL84.

p90fool

The bright cap should do it, I always put them on a switch because I love them with a clean sound.

Another cheap option is a Nobels odr-1, they're cheap new and work well with Black and Silverface Fenders. The Nashville studio overdrive of choice for a good reason.

SunDevil

I've found power valve choice has a big impact on the 'fizziness' with EL84 Amps - for me Sovtek LPS are the ones that exhibit the least of this of new new production valves - much less afflicted than JJs

JohnPerry

paulmapp8306;1071119" said:

The only EL84 amp Ive half likes is the Suhr Badger - and the drive on tht is kind of fizzy, though its thick as well so can be made to work.  Every other amp....nope.  Not even really good ones that are recommended (Carr Lincoln - horrible).  6v6s seem similar to me as well - kind of as if EL84 is to EL34 as 6v6 is to 6L6.

Im not that keen on EL34s either.  I like the round bottom end of the 6L6.  I know its more about design that tube type, but I had an older VHT 50ST, that had a 6L6/EL34 switch.  EL34s were stock but I much preferred it with 6L6s.

My choices in go to order are 6L6, KT66/KT88, 6v6, EL34, EL84.

Off topic but keen to know what you didn't like about the Lincoln

hywelg

I've tried a few and I find EL84's very fussy with overdrives and distortions. I do recall doing a sound check with a long lead once into my Ceriatone DZ-30. Sounded horrible, partly the speaker 'beam' and partly the distortion pedal. Obsessed about it for weeks and weeks, put a Mitchel donut in it which helped but it just didn't like pedals much, very fussy. My mates Maz 18 is similar, gets all nasty if pushed too hard.

Wazmeister

I played a Lincoln on Monday at Coda, and it was a glorious amp. The drive channel was very full, or chimey, or powerful... Very very impressed.

normula1

Have a look at "that pedal show" on YouTube. They have lots of examples of pedals working / not working with various amp types.

Babones

What levels are you using the amp at? You mentioned master volume all the way down. Most amps will sound thin at low volumes when you chuck a dirt pedal through it. You need a bit of decent output valve level going on to add dirt pedals to imo.

Modulus_Amps

2 x EL84 amps need a zobel or conjunctive filter fitter IMO to reduce high end fizz, makes a big difference, if you clip off the bright cap the amp will be really dull with the volume below 9 o'clock, maybe that is what you want though.

The amp also has a fairly scooped tone control set up, so you need drive pedals that have good midrange response, you can change some values in the tone stack to give more midrange, I normally put a few components on switches to do this.

Comparing an EL84 amp without negative feedback to an EL34 with negative feedback is comparing apples and pears for sure.

did you build the amp or buy it built?