Acoustic guitar pickup woes and advice ...

4114Effects

Not had a problem with feedback yet. As it's a mic I'm sure it will feedback at very high volumes, but I've not managed to make it happen.

Haven't tried the mini but all the demos I've watched haven't made me want to. Seems very bassy, and a few forum posts I've read seem to agree. Plus once it's super glued in place you're stuck with it. :-)

4114Effects

Anthem and anthem SL are the versions. Anthem SL has a fixed blend between the piezo and mic, full anthem has the blend control.

I'm sure you can get the anthem cheaper than that? Around £380 I think?

K&k might be fine with a little bit of external EQ. Needs a preamp or decent DI though as it's passive.

4114Effects

https://www.gak.co.uk/en/l.r-baggs-anthem-acoustic-guitar-mic-pickup/42462?gclid=Cj0KEQjwhZm7BRCUyfS6ho2VjOEBEiQAumpGMk8PMzKEBHvck3MAZtgzvKJA7WyPfGLLDpOk2vizi4kaAgyK8P8HAQ

Anthem £329

Anthem SL is about £100 cheaper.

thomasross20

Guy in the shop thought you'd need a good DI with anything, even the Anthem. 

I forget - do you still use a DI?

What version do you have?

Large outlay for something I'll be using sparingly, though want to get the best I can at the same time.

4114Effects

I do still use a DI as I'm going direct to desk. I use a Fishman platinum pro EQ, although I have to say it's set pretty flat on the EQ. I only use it as a play a few different venues and don't always trust the sound guys to get it right, so I have the EQ controls at my feet. I daresay I could get away with a standard DI.

Other than than I use a couple of reverbs, delays and a compressor. But that's just because I do a lot of ambient and atmospheric playing to fill out a small band, just a standard DI and reverb would actually be fine in most cases.

thomasross20

Oh... a reverb pedal is a good shout. 

I never thought I'd need one as my amp has it on it but... I'd need it for acoustic probably. 

Silly question but I assume my normal pedals will work on an acoustic (chorus pedal etc)? 

So do you have the SL or the higher-end version? Happy with it now? 

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

Silly question but I assume my normal pedals will work on an acoustic (chorus pedal etc)?

Yes, but best if the guitar has a preamp or you use an outboard one - the input impedance of typical electric guitar pedals is a little low for an un-preamped acoustic pickup (other than a magnetic).

If you want to check out what the Fishman Aura sounds like, try any Aura-equipped Martin, and set the blend to 100% Aura and try to ignore the guitar . That will show what the modelled sounds are like without the piezo colouring it too much. Normally for live use you would want a bit of the piezo blended in to add a bit of punch, as you would with a normal mic-blend system. Essentially the Aura models an external mic.

I'm glad you've realised that you won't improve on that Larriveé - or at least not easily - saves a lot of trouble .

thomasross20

Yeah honestly... this guitar should be with me my whole life... 

I'll try that with the Aura... I'm sure they're fitted on some models near to me

So I go into a DI and the output of that goes to the pedals, then to desk..? 

Para DI or Red Eye look good and would fit on a Pedaltrain 2 (which is what I'm thinking about getting).

4114Effects

Go into the pedals and then from them to the DI, then to the desk. I'll send a pic of my setup when I get chance.

I have the full anthem not the SL.

thomasross20

D'oh, read post wrong - been a long day! Thanks, will be cool to see.

thomasross20

Just checked out the FIshman Aura - looks complicated compared to Red Eye / Para DI?

ICBM

Yes, it is - or at least the full model is, as well as being much more flexible - and it has a steep and non-intuitive learning curve. But once you've got the hang of it, it does sound better than anything else I've tried as well as being pretty feedback-resistant. The external one works best from a plain passive undersaddle pickup so is fairly non-invasive in the guitar too.

thomasross20

Sorry for the late reply here!! Listened to more demos - it does sound good.... 

Here's the thing. If I'm going to have this guitar forever, which I likely will... I'd like the best for it. 

At the same time, I'm not going to be doing acoustic gigs all that often (at least in the medium-term). 

When I do... it wont be with a loud band as the backdrop... it'll maybe be with one other acoustic and a singer, maybe a cajon. 

If then Anthem could cope with all that, then great.... though it's pricey and involves batteries in the guitar etc. 

I'm going to check out this under-saddle pickup you've mentioned. Failing that, the K&K sounds a winner to me (though I know you don't trust body transducer pickups) - it's really non-invasive other than having to superglue it in (!) - totally passive.. no batteries to worry about... and it's under £100 !! 

And I could get some sort of pre-amp (Fishman, Para DI or K&K) to help with EQ...

I've been mulling over this for over a year now.........!! The time to do something about it is close at hand...

thomasross20

Although not featuring the Anthem, this is a good demo of the Fishman vs K&K vs Lyric:

K&K in an OM-02 (my guitar):

Lewy

thomasross20 said:

Failing that, the K&K sounds a winner to me (though I know you don't trust body transducer pickups) - it's really non-invasive other than having to superglue it in (!) - totally passive.. no batteries to worry about... and it's under £100 !! 

And I could get some sort of pre-amp (Fishman, Para DI or K&K) to help with EQ...

You'll have impedance mismatch issues with the Para DI and Fishman if using it with a K&K, leading to excess bass frequencies and a muffled sound you may or may not be able to EQ your way out of.

The K&K preamps/DIs will obviously be fine, as will the RedEye and any of the very well priced DIs from Orchid Electronics. Or just use pretty much any Boss pedal as a buffer as that works too.

Personally I'm a convert from the Lyric to the K&K Pure Mini. The K&K may only sound 85% as good as the Lyric, but it's many many times easier to use in the typical plugged in scenario imho. I don't think I ever managed to get the Lyric to sound as good as it CAN sound live because it needs such careful EQing to get rid of this weird low mid hump it's got going on. Which is fine if you've got a) time and b) 2 sweepable mids at your disposal, but if you don't have both those things you can have problems.

Most demos of the Pure Mini that are recorded straight to sound card do indeed sound gash, but that's not how they get used generally -  there's moving air, and a room, and ambience etc ... realistically in a live setting I think they sound great.

thomasross20

Interesting - you're a K&K convert!

But did you try the Anthem? Supposedly it is a lot better than the Lyric... the blend control is great so you can dial out the mic and just use the UST if feedback is an issue. Apparently (after a LOT of reading!!) it is much more feedback resistant than the K&K (the mic portion!). My reservations are the price and all the electronics, batteries etc.... K&K is simple and I like that. 

Did you fit the K&K yourself and superglue the contacts in? 

Assuming the K&K doesn't feed back badly, and it gets 80% toward the tone of the guitar itself... the simplicity surely is a massive win for this...

ALso, @Lewy... what pre-amp do YOU use? 

I think a DI is fine.... I'd use PA for EQ. So Red Eye would be enough and supposedly they sound the best. 

Though you'd think the K&K stuff would be better.. 

Will check out Orchid Electronics.

thomasross20

£36!?

http://www.orchid-electronics.co.uk/classic_DI.htm

This is great... I can kit out my acoustic for ~£136... way cheaper than I thought and likely very passable...!

ICBM

Careful... for an *un*-preamped pickup in the guitar, an input impedance of 1Mohm - which that Orchid, most other DI boxes and most standard pedals have - isn't really high enough and can result in a poor sound. You really need 10M or better, which a dedicated acoustic preamp should have.

You *can* do this more cheaply and less intrusively than a full-blown multi-source install into the guitar, but you need to make sure you don't go too far the other way or it will sound naff. I think that's possibly the problem with those K&K demos that make it sound muddy.

thomasross20

I checked and the red eye also has 1M input impedance - and folk rave about those...? I get you, though, the bigger the better.

Given I'll only play plugged in 5% of the time, I think this is a good option - supposedly the sound is much better when a di or pre-amp is used. Have you heard a k&k in the flesh?

Tempted to buy now, though not sure if I should install myself or not

Lewy

1Mohm is what K&K's own preamps have, and that's the impedance they work best with. Don't ask me why, but it's K&Ks recommendation and just about everybody's user experience including my own.

I've done two K&K installs myself, and used the superglue rather than double sided tape. It's not hard if you take your time, assuming your endpin is already drilled out. That's something I'd always get a pro to do on a good guitar.

I plug into a Boss GE-7, then into a LR Baggs Session DI.