Wudtone black magic woman finish, any experience?

TTBZ

Not sure actually! It was made by John Manuel, I had been emailing him about making it a little shorter but that was when I was going to do a hardtail jazzmaster before I'd decided to do the telemaster, I'll compare it to my Jag bass when it's done. It definitely seems like a good size for a body anyway.

Thinking I should have maybe got a dark tort 'guard for it now rather than parchment though!

DrBob

TTBZ;1105497" said:

Not sure actually! It was made by John Manuel, I had been emailing him about making it a little shorter but that was when I was going to do a hardtail jazzmaster before I'd decided to do the telemaster, I'll compare it to my Jag bass when it's done. It definitely seems like a good size for a body anyway.

Thinking I should have maybe got a dark tort 'guard for it now rather than parchment though!

Agreed, Dark Tort on that would be good. Good to hear that it came from Jon Manuel too, it would be good to know if it is a bit shorter than the standard Jazzmaster/Jaguar silhouette because If I can get the cash together I want him to do me a Telemaster but with less of an expanse behind the bridge like the Telemaster Jr that Marc Rutters makes

GSPBASSES

I finished the tests on the Crimson guitars black and purple stain. The photo below shows the test piece, it's now had two coats of colour, I don't think it needed any more, as you can see it's pretty solid, but you can still see the grain. I decided as its Crimson guitars colour I would use their finishing oil. This proved to be very easy to apply, it does not dry as fast as Eze oil but still very quick. The test piece only had three coats of oil, I don't think it needs any more. What did surprise me was how glossy this oil is without any buffing or help. I've now decided to try this oil on a neck to see how it goes on to Maple.

While I was doing this test I was also testing Crimson guitars red colour. As I'm about to make a Les Paul Junior and the customer wants a faded red finish. The test pieces below show two coats of Red followed b

y two coats of Eze oil. The lighter of the two test pieces is African mahogany and the darker is Brazilian 

  Sorry one of the pictures as appear twice and haven't worked out how to delete it yet.

TTony

GSPBASSES said:

Sorry one of the pictures as appear twice and haven't worked out how to delete it yet.

Deleted the duplicate for you.

Those are some pretty impressive results, and it sounds like the process has been a lot easier than using Wudt*ne.

My Crimson stain is waiting for me in the workshop.  I'm hoping to do my own tests tomorrow.  Will post results here.

TTBZ

Couple of tru oil coats and this is how it looks so far. The top and back look good (apart from the little "hole" on the upper horn which i should have filled really) but the bottom and cutaways look a little ropey, is it just because I didn't sand them smooth enough ? Even after the same oiling process they look a bit "matte" compared to the rest.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lz5pqao4wrleemp/20160612_163847.jpg?dl=0

andypwudtone

Wood grain rises when using a water-based stain and so  techniques and or  treatments are needed to get a professional look especially on end grain. I would minimising grain raise/blotching by spraying a project with water or rub down with a damp cloth. Allow the wood to dry and then sand lightly to remove the raised grain. This will help to condition the wood to accept a coloured water based stain more evenly and so result in less grain raise, blotching. kind regards

Andyjr1515

TTBZ;1107933" said:

Couple of tru oil coats and this is how it looks so far. The top and back look good (apart from the little "hole" on the upper horn which i should have filled really) but the bottom and cutaways look a little ropey, is it just because I didn't sand them smooth enough ? Even after the same oiling process they look a bit "matte" compared to the rest.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lz5pqao4wrleemp/20160612_163847.jpg?dl=0

This is normal. The tail end and insides of the horns are end grain and suck in any moisture, whether that is stain, oil or varnish. All that is happening after a couple of coats of tru oil is that the oil in these areas has been sucked in, still leaving 'dry' end grain on the top. Additional coats will eventually clog up the grain - leave it a day before re oiling so it allows the oil to set hard - and then start coating the ends in the same way that it already has on the top and back.

WezV

I agree with Andy's advice above regarding damping grain and resanding lightly to remove raised grain. Its a standard practice which works with the majority of wood finishes and will help you get a smoother finish quicker.

Andy, its my understanding from our previous discussions that you don't recommend this for Wudtone. I seem to remember it being suggested that me doing this before finishing is a potential reason Wudtone did not work for me. For clarity and the hopefully successful results of your customers, can you confirm if this is the case?

WezV

Andyjr1515;1108177" said:

TTBZ;1107933" said:Couple of tru oil coats and this is how it looks so far. The top and back look good (apart from the little "hole" on the upper horn which i should have filled really) but the bottom and cutaways look a little ropey, is it just because I didn't sand them smooth enough ? Even after the same oiling process they look a bit "matte" compared to the rest.



https://www.dropbox.com/s/lz5pqao4wrleemp/20160612_163847.jpg?dl=0

This is normal. The tail end and insides of the horns are end grain and suck in any moisture, whether that is stain, oil or varnish. All that is happening after a couple of coats of tru oil is that the oil in these areas has been sucked in, still leaving 'dry' end grain on the top. Additional coats will eventually clog up the grain - leave it a day before re oiling so it allows the oil to set hard - and then start coating the ends in the same way that it already has on the top and back.

This... More oil at this point.

Andyjr1515

Andyjr1515 said:

TTBZ;1107933" said:

Couple of tru oil coats and this is how it looks so far. The top and back look good (apart from the little "hole" on the upper horn which i should have filled really) but the bottom and cutaways look a little ropey, is it just because I didn't sand them smooth enough ? Even after the same oiling process they look a bit "matte" compared to the rest.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lz5pqao4wrleemp/20160612_163847.jpg?dl=0

This is normal. The tail end and insides of the horns are end grain and suck in any moisture, whether that is stain, oil or varnish. All that is happening after a couple of coats of tru oil is that the oil in these areas has been sucked in, still leaving 'dry' end grain on the top. Additional coats will eventually clog up the grain - leave it a day before re oiling so it allows the oil to set hard - and then it will start coating the ends in the same way that it already has on the top and back.

Andyjr1515

Sorry. Edited a typo and got a double post!

andypwudtone

WezV said:

I agree with Andy's advice above regarding damping grain and resanding lightly to remove raised grain. Its a standard practice which works with the majority of wood finishes and will help you get a smoother finish quicker.

Andy, its my understanding from our previous discussions that you don't recommend this for Wudtone. I seem to remember it being suggested that me doing this before finishing is a potential reason Wudtone did not work for me. For clarity and the hopefully successful results of your customers, can you confirm if this is the case?

Hi @WezV, thank you for seeking clarity. 

Firstly  Wudtone didn't work for you on the semi you tried to stain green, then it did on the bits of bare wood you applied it to. Only you know the treatments before and once you had received that veneered laminated body. If you did some damping of grain and resanding lightly to remove raised grain , that won't have helped ., 

Wudtone just needs sanded bare porous wood the grit matters as per instructions. The big difference here though is that Wudtone is NOT a coloured water based product, the Crimson stuff is. So no Wudtone does not need any of the pre wetting re sanding as above. I'm not a fan of wetting wood for guitar projects anyway, I'm with Paul Reed Smith on that.  

Also the term stain doesn't really help customers understand what they are getting, what the outcomes may be. The OP wanted satin black deep and rich ,  

Any stain  (if that means dye only) will struggle to meet those needs. Wudtone has a Dark Onyx ( dye only ) which you might reasonably describe as a stain,  it is very fine particle so good for contrast character etc, see eg on Flamed Maple

  Wudtone also offers Black Magic Woman, as below 

Very different products for different needs. Black Magic Woman has dye and pigment ( so not really fair to call it a stain)  , also the recommended use by for any of the Wudtone options is 2-3mnths so after 12mnths @RedRabbit you did well to get it out of the bottle. 

It is fair to say Black Magic Woman can be a bitch to get a deep rich colouration, final sanding with fresh 180 grit seems plenty as a start grit and then the stipple ( to get more product on with a coating) application technique mentioned on our forum helps. Then it is pretty easy but not everyone manages it first time. 

So if your using a coloured water based system like Crimson stuff, then you may find the wetting the wood first and sand the raised grain is a useful technique, with Wudtone it is uneccessary, indeed a bad thing to do. kind regards 

WezV

Cool. Thanks for clarifying.

TTBZ

Couple more coats and this is looking nice now Pretty much the finish I was going for - transparent enough to see the grain but not too woody, and shiny but not too shiny! Over the next few days I'm gonna give it 2 more coats of tru-oil and leave it for a few days to fully harden then give it a polish with Briwax and hopefully it'll be done!