Why SJW's are so demented.

Drew_TNBD

You do know where the term Aids Skrillex comes from right?

Skipped

If we were to put Aristotle or Socrates into a time machine and then invite them to discuss the advantages or disadvantages experienced by white straight men, or feminists, or any other group,  they would do so on the basis of the evidence. The fact that they were totally unfamiliar with the term SJW - or any other entry in an Urban Dictionary  -  would not hinder them in any way as they won the argument.

At an Eu Referendum Rally (yesterday) the Durham MP Pat Glass said that young people were ‘key’ to a successful Remain vote in the referendum. She then urged the rally to boost the remain vote and said: “Go and speak to your mother, your grandmother. Don’t speak to your grandfather, we know the problem are older white men.”

These comments are supposedly controversial. I am not sure how the comments can be Racist or Ageist when they are made by a white woman who will be 60 in a few months time. Finding an abreviated slur  to describe Pat Glass is not a priority IMO. What is important is: Is she correct?

Also: A couple of weeks ago Pat Glass called a man she bumped into while campaigning "a horrible racist".
How am I supposed to judge the merits of this "news story" unless I can establish if the man is or is not a horrible racist?

Drew_TNBD

Skipped said:

 Is she correct?

No. Because age, gender, and skin colour are not good enough metrics to draw such conclusions.

Sporky

Drew_fx said:

Sporky said:

Drew_fx said:

By their logic a brown lesbian lawyer earning $1M a year is less privileged than a straight white male working as a taxi-driver.

The above is like saying that BMI is worthless because it paints a professional rugby forward as less healthy than a bedridden anorexic, ignoring that it wasn't intended to be applied to either.

Look... take it back to this point, coz this is really your first disagreement that I can spot. Would you agree with that?

I do indeed. Sorry for the break in service there, took the dog for a walk.

I think you're getting the cart before the horse on that. It isn't that concepts of privilege and progressive stack are not useful for comparing a brown lesbian lawyer and a white male taxi-driver... it's that if you want to compare those two... then those concepts are not the right tools.

The intention isn't to utilise the tools and to find a job for them... it's that you've got this thing you wanna do, what are the best tools for them?

I don't think skin colour and gender is a good enough metric for determining the privilege differential between those two generalised examples.

I agree with that, and I see the distinction. The privilege concept is only useful in context and as one small way of examining the world, and while staying sane about it. I also think it was a poor choice of word for many reasons.

I also had a good think about this on my walk. I think it's actually that I find some/many of the people who get called SJWs a bit irritating too, because I'm firmly in favour of equality and they seem as interested in fighting and arguing and name calling as they do in equality - possibly more so.

But then it seems to me that SJW sometimes gets used as a general insult for anyone in favour of equality by those in positions of greater power. I should pay attention to the context I s'pose.

octatonic

Sporky said:

But then it seems to me that SJW sometimes gets used as a general insult for anyone in favour of equality by those in positions of greater power. I should pay attention to the context I s'pose.

There seems to be a bit of a problem on both sides of this issue with grouping everyone in the opposite camp with the worst examples of either.

I sometimes see SJW used as a catch-all put down for anyone who disagrees with 'men's movement' ideas- particularly those fuck-knuckles who call themselves 'pickup artists', who employ techniques such as gaslighting on the women they are trying to dominate.

Same with 'cuck'.

From my perspective there are people in the men's movement who have a point with some of the ridiculousness  being uttered by SJW types, but some feminists automatically assume that anyone in the men's movement is a Julien Blanc character.

Similarly, the examples of SJW ridiculousness are the extreme- there are plenty of feminist women who think it is stupid to criminalise lying in a relationship as rape.

If you try to judge the totality of anything by what occurs at the extremes then you will have a skewed perception of what is actually going on.

I'm largely disinterested in fighting SJW types online.

I'm similarly disinterested in arguing with masculinist activists too.

I come back to my idea of clock face politics- you have the extremes at 1 o'clock and 11 o'clock- they have more in common with the people they are fighting than the people at 6 o'clock- the moderates.

Sporky

octatonic said:

I sometimes see SJW used as a catch all put down for anyone who disagrees with 'men's movement' ideas- particularly those fuckknuckles who call themselves pickup artists, who employ techniques such as gaslighting on the women they are trying to dominate.

Or for anyone who thinks that the Gamergate bunch were out of order.

digitalscream

Sporky said:

octatonic said:

I sometimes see SJW used as a catch all put down for anyone who disagrees with 'men's movement' ideas- particularly those fuckknuckles who call themselves pickup artists, who employ techniques such as gaslighting on the women they are trying to dominate.

Or for anyone who thinks that the Gamergate bunch were out of order.

There was so much idiocy on both sides of Gamergate that the original (quite good, in my opinion) point got lost. As soon as it degenerated to the level of the YouTube comments section on both sides, everybody involved just looked like total tools.

octatonic

digitalscream said:

Sporky said:

octatonic said:

I sometimes see SJW used as a catch all put down for anyone who disagrees with 'men's movement' ideas- particularly those fuckknuckles who call themselves pickup artists, who employ techniques such as gaslighting on the women they are trying to dominate.

Or for anyone who thinks that the Gamergate bunch were out of order.

There was so much idiocy on both sides of Gamergate that the original (quite good, in my opinion) point got lost. As soon as it degenerated to the level of the YouTube comments section on both sides, everybody involved just looked like total tools.

Yes, exactly this.

Sporky

What was the original point? I only saw from the death, maiming and rape threats against someone for making a game they didn't want to play but which got good reviews.

digitalscream

Sporky said:

What was the original point? I only saw from the death, maiming and rape threats against someone for making a game they didn't want to play but which got good reviews.

It was mainly about corruption in the gaming press which was unfairly biased towards certain female "developers", who wrote crap games but successfully pressured the press into favourable reviews by various means.

Once that point got lost, it was a waste of time for anybody to join in. However, that didn't stop them.

Sporky

Ah - I take it the original point didn't last long then.

There does seem to be a lot of anger on the game review sites against anything which doesn't involve men shooting each other.

Heartfeltdawn

Drew_fx said:

I don't think skin colour and gender is a good enough metric for determining the privilege differential between those two generalised examples.

Zingo bingo. Which is why privilege falls down. It is a word that is loaded yet has been reinvented most insidiously. 

It strikes me that those who want to fight discrimination are afraid to use the word 'discrimination' and settle for 'white privilege'. A very peculiar practice. It's akin to Jews saying that they are victims of 'Christian privilege' instead of anti-semitism.

@Octatonic's point on clock face politics is very well made.  

digitalscream

Sporky said:

Ah - I take it the original point didn't last long then.

There does seem to be a lot of anger on the game review sites against anything which doesn't involve men shooting each other.

It's funny you should say that...it's a situation where guys actually can't win. I remember two recent examples...

1 - A few years ago, there was a shooter (pretty crap, as I recall) in which the protagonist was female, but most of the computer opponents were also female. The developer was excoriated for promoting a) violence against women, and b) male fantasies about women with guns.

2 - Elite: Dangerous. The game was originally released in something of an unfinished state; if you got close enough to another ship, you'd see that the pilot's seat was empty. There was a 50-odd page thread about how it was sexist not to have a female pilot in the seat for female players, even though there wasn't a male pilot for male players.

It's an industry where sexism is assumed, even if there isn't any. That's part of what kicked off Gamergate, I think; the gaming press aren't so much corrupt as they are terrified of a feminist backlash, so they go easy on anything written by predominantly female developers.

PolarityMan

Particularly with the very vocal nutjobs I think that it's actually a manifestation of failure to take responsibility for one's own failure to succeed. People do this in lots of different ways (I think that we can all empathise with feeling like something wasn't our fault and if only we had a break we would succeed at something) but in their case social media has given them a platform that makes them feel like they can validate their position.

It's very telling that the majority of SJW's seem to be young middle class white women, they're usually not actually people from what I would class as extremely disadvantaged backgrounds. 

TheBlueWolf

I'm all for a level playing field in terms of equality but these type of people seem to be unable to take any personal responsibility for their level of success/failure in life and need an 'enemy' to try and justify what they perceive as wrong.

breakstuff

They where called 'The Looney Left' when I was a lad and largely ignored but the internet,unfortunately has given them a disproportionately bigger voice.

They're still looneys however.

Drew_TNBD

digitalscream said:

Sporky said:

octatonic said:

I sometimes see SJW used as a catch all put down for anyone who disagrees with 'men's movement' ideas- particularly those fuckknuckles who call themselves pickup artists, who employ techniques such as gaslighting on the women they are trying to dominate.

Or for anyone who thinks that the Gamergate bunch were out of order.

There was so much idiocy on both sides of Gamergate that the original (quite good, in my opinion) point got lost. As soon as it degenerated to the level of the YouTube comments section on both sides, everybody involved just looked like total tools.

Hmmm, I don't agree really. Things like Deep Freeze were quite a good way of fighting back against the mainstream media. Don't forget... GameJournoPros was a group setup by many many game journalists to literally bitch and snitch and back-chat about goings on in the gaming world for years and years. No-one had a clue about it until it broke.

The gaming press definitely are corrupt.

Zoe Quinn fucked guys for reviews. Whilst being in a long-term relationship. That kicked the whole thing off.

Drew_TNBD

Sporky said:

Ah - I take it the original point didn't last long then.

There does seem to be a lot of anger on the game review sites against anything which doesn't involve men shooting each other.

There was collusion amongst the gaming press. On one day last year something like 12 of the main gaming websites all released articles entitled things like "gamers are dead" and that really got people's goats. After some investigation the collusion was discovered.

People really under estimate internet detectives.

Drew_TNBD

Sporky said:

Drew_fx said:

Sporky said:

Drew_fx said:

By their logic a brown lesbian lawyer earning $1M a year is less privileged than a straight white male working as a taxi-driver.

The above is like saying that BMI is worthless because it paints a professional rugby forward as less healthy than a bedridden anorexic, ignoring that it wasn't intended to be applied to either.

Look... take it back to this point, coz this is really your first disagreement that I can spot. Would you agree with that?

I do indeed. Sorry for the break in service there, took the dog for a walk.

I think you're getting the cart before the horse on that. It isn't that concepts of privilege and progressive stack are not useful for comparing a brown lesbian lawyer and a white male taxi-driver... it's that if you want to compare those two... then those concepts are not the right tools.

The intention isn't to utilise the tools and to find a job for them... it's that you've got this thing you wanna do, what are the best tools for them?

I don't think skin colour and gender is a good enough metric for determining the privilege differential between those two generalised examples.

I agree with that, and I see the distinction. The privilege concept is only useful in context and as one small way of examining the world, and while staying sane about it. I also think it was a poor choice of word for many reasons.

I also had a good think about this on my walk. I think it's actually that I find some/many of the people who get called SJWs a bit irritating too, because I'm firmly in favour of equality and they seem as interested in fighting and arguing and name calling as they do in equality - possibly more so.

But then it seems to me that SJW sometimes gets used as a general insult for anyone in favour of equality by those in positions of greater power. I should pay attention to the context I s'pose.

I too am interesting in equality. I think girls and minorities are just as capable as anyone else.

But I think we really need to be careful when it comes to terms like "greater power" because the metrics by which we measure such power have a very meaningful impact on how we deal with such power. IE: Using wealth seems more sensible than using race to me, and using race seems dumber than using quality of upbringing.

I don't expect a white boy who was beaten for 10 years of his life by his mother and father to be as achieved as a black girl who never had that experience. And the science backs me up on that particular example. So we need better metrics.

Effectively my whole beef with SJW's is one of scientific principles versus religious principles.

holnrew

As well as ignoring wealth they seem to also ignore mental illness in males. But at the same time self diagnose psychological disorders.