Blackstar Blackbirds vs Matrix NL212 Speakers *2nd demo added*

thomasross20

*UPDATE* see several posts down for better, second demo. 

OK I know, I know (!!!!) - this isn't a great recording. 
I used my Zoom H2n and it was to the right of both cabs... totally off-axis!! 
Also, lots of string noise and not enough cab... 

However! This was just a quick recording I made when I managed to get my new Matrix NL212 cab up and running. The Matrix speakers use Neodymium magnets - the cab weighs 13kg compared to the 24kg of the Blackstar (which does include the amp section, too). 

I've heard people say the Neoymium's can sound brittle etc. To be honest, unless they sounded like mud, I'd have made the compromise for sake of saving my back (the weight!). 

So anyway... the soundcloud file is at the top of the page... couple things played back to back. 
First time you hear the Blackstar speakers. Second time you hear the Matrix speakers. 

Opinions? 

Same EQ etc for both... I'm sure EQ can be dialled differently to aid either cab. 
I think the Matrix speakers sound more open, or the Blackstars sound a bit more muddy. More treble in the Matrix speakers. 
The true test would be a mic right in front with volume up.

1st demo:

thomasross20

This is what Anderton's had to say about the NL212 speakers:

"The matrix cab should sound good with any of the amps – some describe the neodymium drivers as being similar to a V30 but with extra clarity in the low end. The victory cabs come loaded with either V30 speakers or creambacks, which are a little mellower sounding with less high cut, making them well suited to cleaner tones. "


I can't decide, listening back, if the Matrix cab sounds more nasally, or if the Blackstar sounds more muddy. I'm guessing the Matrix would cut through more in a band situation.. I think I prefer the Neo speakers - they sound more natural to me. Though I may be talking bollocks - will be good to hear what you think.

thomasross20

Don't be afraid to p!ss on my chips. If you listen, comment!  

digitalscream

Well, I personally think the Matrix cab definitely sounds better - can't really tell much of a difference in the clean clips, but as soon as the drive comes in it's pretty clear.

However...string noise, dude This is why close-mics are a good idea for this sort of thing, or insane amounts of volume.

It's interesting that the Matrix sounds good with the Blackstar ID, though, because they're notorious for not sounding great with anything other than the stock speakers.

ThePrettyDamned

Agreed with above. It's hard to call, though, and you might just be able to eq them to match. 

Try playing louder, perhaps do a quick 2 minute comparison at volume at rehearsal. 

However, I must admit, the tone from that Blackstar really is impressive for a cheap-ish modelling amp.  I really think they hit the nail on the head with that one. I tried the 2x12 combo and the stereo effects coupled with a very, very well voiced set of models made it really easy to get excellent tones. 

I vaguely remember the smaller ones missing a presence control or something, so they may not be so easy.

guitarfishbay

The ID EQ isn't especially powerful, so I doubt you could EQ to match.

The ID series sounds pretty good through Mesa V30s, having tried it through Rectifier and Stiletto 2x12s.  It sounded pretty decent through the Recto cab actually.

I quite like the perceived size and punch of the Matrix cab but it is hard to tell given the volume and proximity of the actual strings of the guitar.

thomasross20

Guys, I've yet to read the replies (at work) but will defo try and do another demo.... a MUCH better one, very soon... (well, maybe the weekend)

digitalscream

Yeah, I was planning on doing a demo of mine, but it'd be useless without anything to compare it to - I've got to borrow a V30-loaded cab from someone, I think, because that's the speaker that most people already know.

thomasross20

I wasn't sure if the Neo sounded a bit airy and trebly compared to the Blackbirds - or if the Blackbirds were muddy in comparison. The Neo's maybe sound a bit more natural - makes it sound more valve-like, if that doesn't sound silly. I'll do another demo later on.

guitarfishbay

Are they the kind of speakers to benefit from some breaking in?

digitalscream

guitarfishbay said:

Are they the kind of speakers to benefit from some breaking in?

They apparently take a couple of hours to break in, and the effect is very sudden and pronounced. That's why I bought the display model from the Guitar Show (I'm fundamentally lazy), and the ones you're listening to above were second-hand.

thomasross20

OK, I recorded a second demo. Speakers are somewhat louder, placed further away from me. You can still hear some string noise but hey. I'm getting excited about the MJW I'm ordering as I think it's going to kill the Blackstar!

I'm pasting this in the OP as well. 

thomasross20

Err, posts don't like to have more than one soundcloud link? 
In fact, if I go to edit a post with a soundlcoud link, the link disappears. 

Anyway! Let me know what you think of the speakers based on this second demo.... ignore the shoddy playing - it was just a quick demo!

John_P

Not sure which speaker was which and if the order stayed the same,  but I preferred the second clip each time.   In the clean and first distorted section the second clip could do with a bit more bite but it had more body and life if a little muddy, in the final shredding clips it the second clip sounded brighter and worked better.  The first clip of each sounded a bit thin for me.    
BUT that could all change in the context of a mix and I know I've set up tones that sound good at home and get lost with a band many times.  
Those recordings must be very quiet if I can hear the string noise direct from the guitar so it will all change again when it's at proper volume.   

I'd try both cabs with a band and see which you prefer then. 

thomasross20

The first clip each time was the Blackstar Blackbird speaker. 
In fact it's good you didn't know which was which - the blind test has worked!
The amp wasn't booming loud - my Zoom H2n just seems to be super-sensitive. 
Definitely be good to try the new speaker "in the mix" / band setting.

ecc83

In case anyone is wondering why "I" have not chipped in? It is because I do not have the first idea what a Blackbird actually is! I would not be able to hear very much difference anyway.

Just a point tho', if you want to compare speakers the best test source is pink noise (Audacity) use an SDC mic and stuff the results into Rightmark Anny-lizer.

Dave.

thomasross20

@ecc83, just to note... I'm not trying to slate either speaker. I actually love the ID series and think they sound fantastic, as I've said loads of times on here

digitalscream

ecc83 said:

In case anyone is wondering why "I" have not chipped in? It is because I do not have the first idea what a Blackbird actually is! I would not be able to hear very much difference anyway.

Just a point tho', if you want to compare speakers the best test source is pink noise (Audacity) use an SDC mic and stuff the results into Rightmark Anny-lizer.

Dave.

That's probably the right technical way to analyse a speaker's performance, but really...it's all about the way it sounds when you play it.

ecc83

digitalscream said:

ecc83 said:

In case anyone is wondering why "I" have not chipped in? It is because I do not have the first idea what a Blackbird actually is! I would not be able to hear very much difference anyway.

Just a point tho', if you want to compare speakers the best test source is pink noise (Audacity) use an SDC mic and stuff the results into Rightmark Anny-lizer.

Dave.

That's probably the right technical way to analyse a speaker's performance, but really...it's all about the way it sounds when you play it.

Yes but when you use musical signals you are hitting it with DISCRETE frequencies, even heavy distortion is just a series of discrete "spikes" . Noise gives you the complete spectrum of the speaker, akin to playing every tune in every key. RMA can give you a printout of the spectrum (invert the colour!) and thus you might be able to see WHY the speakers sound differently.

If you insist on a guitar input at least use a constant one, a re-amped loop!

Dave.