Plexi vs JCM tone

thomasross20

Discuss. 

thomasross20

Is it true the gain from plexi's comes from master volume, whereas jcm type amps have separate gain control? Which do you prefer and why?

ThePrettyDamned

They're similar. 

JCM 800 has more gain and more fizz, but less of both than you'd expect perhaps. They do a huge, roaring tone. 

The older plexi superlead and superbass have a little less gain, and actually don't have a lot of distortion. However, when they're loud that do that huge "kerrang" sound with humbuckers. It's the sound of rock, really. 

The even older jtm45 is another step back, a little more saggy and warmer/fatter with less treble. My favourite really. But I love all of them 

You really need to find a shop that stocks the reissues, turn it up, take earplugs and go nuts. You'll know quick why they're so special. 

Alnico

If i couldn't have a JCM 800 2203 i wouldn't have a Marshall. End of.
I don't know what form of wizardry makes it sound the way it does but for me it's THE rock amp, just like a Dual Rec is THE metal amp.
The Marshall has a thump and the cleanest clean but still a thumpy clean.
The Kerry King JCM 800 Beast is also a great amp, based on the original 2203 but with a built in EQ and noise gate. It's a classic JCM 800 until you press the switch and it goes all Metal.

A Plexi is nice but for me just doesn't get close.

My Perfect amp head cabinet would contain a 2203, a 2203 KK and a Mesa Dual Rec (Reborn).
There's no way it wouldn't have a 2203 in there and there's no way it would contain a Plexi.

thomasross20

If I wanted to play a lot of Guns N' Roses, I assume I'd be looking at a JCM....? Was the Silver Jubilee a JCM-type?

Alnico

thomasross20 said:

If I wanted to play a lot of Guns N' Roses, I assume I'd be looking at a JCM....? Was the Silver Jubilee a JCM-type?

Yes a 2203 will get you to GnR territory - AFD was recorded using a (Now lost) modified 2203.
Most of of the early live stuff will use one too.

@ICBM and a lot of others will know exactly what model is what, i don't have that level of knowledge but i do know Slash had a sig model in the 90's called a 2555.

I will leave the rest to those who know much more than me.

thomasross20

I'll be honest, I'm looking at a custom amp tailored to my exact needs. Yeah, totally splurge, I know... but then I did buy 2 PRS in a row lol... I'm thinking an MJW Electra twin (grind) and the plexi demo sounds fantastic but there is a JCM option but no demo... so I'm not quite sure!

Alnico

If you're already thinking of MJW then just do it.

My dream amp cabinet is based on stuff I can just go and buy. If i could afford to have it built for me, i wouldn't hesitate and Martin would be my only port of call to replicate the three amps i mentioned.

Not only is it supporting our own member here but it's supporting a British business and what you get is handmade perfection. If you want something customising to your exact taste, he will gladly do that whereas a Marshall has been built to make the maximum amount of profit from and while they are good, they will never be as good as MJW's take on the type of amp you are interested in........................ In My Opinion.
YMMV.

I don't know tons about the inside of amps but i know an artist when i see one.

Speak to MJW. He's a great bloke and the value for money is as good as it's going to get.

Modulus_Amps

You wont get classic slash with a plexi, you may get close with a JCM800 style, but it really needs a few changes to get to that sound. there is allot of discussion about slashes AFD amp tone on the Metro forum.

Martin could probably voice the amp as you wanted.

RaymondLin

Just get a MJW, tell Martin the music that you play, tell him how many channels, tell him the spec such as effects loop, attenuator and or number of channels you want.  Then wait 6 months.  Another day search is another day lost waiting.

Or go out and buy a Bogner Helios if you want a "brand" name and want it now.

thomasross20

I'm afraid folk will think I'm a bit stupid given I've just ordered a V40, I've only mainly (but not only!) played solid-state, and I'm not 100% sure of the specifics (plus I'm thinking about an ID60 head if I can get a used one - they're rock solid and reliable).... BUT I tried an MJW recently and was impressed. The Electra Grind YouTube demo sounds excellent but I think I'm more JCM... I don't know. Is it easy to go from JCM to Plexi, and vice-versa?

@Modulus amps are you saying Slash is more JCM? 

I already have my own spec and I've been e-mailing him:

- Footswitchable Twin Channel Electra (Grind with EL34s). Blackface-type clean and Slash type crunch/distortion!

- Plexi or JCM option I don't know...

- Power Scaling. 

- Multi-ohm output with stereo option.

- 30W, 12kg head. Possible lighter thickness head wood to keep weight down. 30W should be enough to gig (50W is heavier).

- Presence and brightness switches. 

- CH2 gain, separate EQs. 

- Bypassable FX loop (instrument level, I assume).

- Possible groovy light on the front and my own(ish) covering design. 

- DI out not totally essential, haven't decided. 

- Digital reverb (works for most styles, adds less to the weight). 

- Cathode biased so plug and play regarding tubes (I don't know how that works but apparently cathode bias also overdrives more easily and has more sustain so who would go for fixed bias?)

- Possible OD for boost. 

There are other options here I haven't even considered yet:
http://www.mjwamps.com/custom/

E.g. how does an all-valve FX loop work compared to others? Is it better? 
Switchable output valve option? 
Alternative voicing? 

RaymondLin

Buying a V40 isn't stupid, if that is the sound that you are after and or if you want to get your sound from pedals.  That will work just fine. 

thomasross20

I've even thought about cancelling the V40 order (have to wait 2 weeks for delivery) and just get the ID60 head and wait for the MJW, but I do quite like the size, weight and pedal-platform aspect of the V40. Just hope I wont be swimming in amps and losing money if I sell!

RaymondLin

Whatever amp you buy, when you sell, you will be losing money.  It's just a fact of life.  Not a factor to think about but if you buy used, it should minimise your losses.

thomasross20

See I listened to that Bogner demo and wasn't massively impressed. Not *many* valve amps I've tried have massively impressed me - maybe I'm too used to the solid-state sound (it is VERY easy to get a wide range of very good tones out of it). I'm liking the valve *thump* though... the MJW I tried at @camf's place was great - small, light, amazing cleans, cleaned up well. 

thomasross20

Ah bugger it - these two amps will set me back about ~2k, still less than one PRS!

RaymondLin

That is a manual demo as opposed to "win you over with the tones" demo.

They made these for it instead.  The second one is probably more true to life being just a guy in a room with minimal editing. 

Modulus_Amps

yes JCM is more slash than plexi,  but if I was building the amp it would have a few mods to get the earlier slash tone. Pretty sure Martin will be aware of the slash "mods"

I don't get the whole digital reverb with a effects loop, with the loop you can run a good delay/reverb pedal in the loop and change it as you see fit.

I think the solid state effects loop martin uses is just as good as a valve effects loops, I use valve loops quite a bit, they work well but take up more space.

thomasross20

.

thomasross20

Space is a concern so if SS fx loop works as well, all the better.

I've just always liked to have reverb on an amp as opposed to using a pedal for it. 

Slash mods? I'll ask him!

And I'll check those videos out later, thanks!

But early slash you mean AFD, right?
That's about as much distortion as I need, maybe a touch more to be safe. I'm not into big metal tonez.

simonk

Similar to Thorpy's in the reviews section, Martin will shortly be building me a 50W el34 1x12 Orion combo with a blackface inspired clean channel, and a JCM800 inspired crunch channel with switchable boost that takes it into SLO territory (I know... it all sounds epic doesn't it?!). Sounds like something like that would be a good place to start with your list of requirements above.