Plexi vs JCM tone

thomasross20

@simonk :

Does he have a JCM-type demo on his webpage? I'll have to check the Orion out incase that has the sound. 
You're getting that because it's 3 channels? 
50W! Do you play huge venues?

Sounds like you're going from JCM to metal distortion whereas maybe I want overdriven plexi into JCM (or maybe I'm talking bollocks)

ennspek

An MJW 50w would do Wembley or your bedroom.

thomasross20

I think 30W will be more than enough. The 18W Suhr Badger I played was deafening. But I don't think that'd be loud enough for gigs (??)

simonk

thomasross20 said:

@simonk :

Does he have a JCM-type demo on his webpage? I'll have to check the Orion out incase that has the sound. 
You're getting that because it's 3 channels? 
50W! Do you play huge venues?

Sounds like you're going from JCM to metal distortion whereas maybe I want overdriven plexi into JCM (or maybe I'm talking bollocks)

Not sure about demos.
It's a two channel amp: blackface and JCM800, with the 800 channel having a switchable boost. I don't think I'd describe the SLO sound as metal distortion...

As for it being 50W, well it doesn't really matter if the MV is usable. I do usually gig with an an 18W Bantam, which is generally ample. Nice to have a bit more for some of the bigger stages we play though.

Alnico

thomasross20 said:

I think 30W will be more than enough. The 18W Suhr Badger I played was deafening. But I don't think that'd be loud enough for gigs (??)

Martin will build you a 50 or 100w with power scaling.
As has been said, it will be great in your bedroom or at any gig, big  or small.

thomasross20

Electra is 30W or 50W - I'm sure 30W will be enough for gigs, and it also brings the weight down from 16kg to 12kg.

thomasross20

@RaymondLin that 2nd vid was cool - Doug is an amazing player!

thomasross20

Having listened a lot more (I know, not the best way!) I'm sure I'm more of a JCM man. 
But wonder (and have asked Martin) what is easier... to go plexi and use OD to get a JCM sound (if at all possible) or to go JCM and roll off the volume to try to get to a plexi sound. 

I reckon Plexi is great for punchy ACDC chordage... JCM just nails the Slash sort of tone for riffs and solos. Being in a pop & rock covers band...  I wonder if I can do Bryan Adams, Fleetwood Mac etc with a JCM!

JCM is more compressed, notes meld a bit more together... plexi is more open and raw, as such. A bit weedy, distortion-wise (though it sounds great on the Electra video - though that's max gain). 

thomasross20

See this video - the gain boost allows plexi and JCM sounds!

Nerine

There is nothing more versatile than a JCM 800 IMO. 

I I can get myriad tones with a 2203x JCM 800 reissue head and a couple of pedals. 

They are the sound of rock. 

Thats about all there is to it, and nearly everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY in nearly every big band there has ever been has used an 800 at some point.

They are a classic amp for a very good reason. Very few amps make it to legendary status, but the 800 definitely does. And quite rightly so, sits near the top of the list. 

Some people don't "GET" them until they've used them a bit, but once you understand how the controls work, and especially the gain control, as it shapes the tone also, they are a devastating amplifier at any volume. 

Who needs access to 50 mediocre sounds, when you can have one that flat out kills? 

The reason why I say a JCM 800 is great for pretty much any style of music is because they simply respond to the guitar that is being used, and the player, more so than pretty much amp going.

Side by side in an A/B comparison with other amps in the room, no matter what they are, for sheer devastation and authority with a humongous sonic footprint, and more importantly, tone, the 800 would simply walk it pretty much every time. 


Like, you can set up a VH4 or a Rectifier, or pretty much any "rock" amp and get it up as loud as you like, and sounding cool. 

As as soon as you wheel in a cooking and boosted up 800 next to them, they sound very small indeed. 

There is nothing quite like them.

They are amplifiers that are an extension of the player. As all the legendary ones are. 

Theyre less of an obvious choice nowadays for some reason, but I think it's due to the whole piddly small amp craze that's kicking around. 

Aidanspaghetti

Poor old Reinholdt just doesn't have the VH swing
Makes great amps though...

thomasross20

@Nerine I think the JCM is a bit more syrupy, if that makes sense. Maybe a bit more forgiving. I'd hope running master higher and backing off pre-amp gain could approach plexi territory. 
Then I'm wondering... while I'm gigging... do I leave it in that "crunch" mode during verses and use an OD for solos to get back to proper JCM? If that's the case, that's the same as going plexi and using an OD to try to get to JCM? Home practice on a JCM must surely sound a lot better - lower gain plexi isn't massively my thing but  can massively appreciate it as I play a lot of lower gain material in the band.

thomasross20

I guess this is why SS/modellers (or clean pedal platforms) are a breath of fresh air - get as many tones as you want rather than being stuck with a channel you might not like

p90fool

The real breath of fresh air is when you have one you DO like, and with use of your guitar controls and one boost pedal you have a simple, responsive and musical system where the guitar and amp are two halves of one instrument and you can play anything from AC/DC to jangly pop with authority. 

I'm not an anti-digital snob and often have had uses for modellers, but live I want a real dynamic instrument which responds on the fly to mood, audience and room changes. 

If you get it right you'll never go back, but be careful, every little change you make from the original JCM800 design takes you a step away from the magic they undoubtedly have. Don't add too many "versatility" features at the expense of the core tone, that's already versatile enough IMO. 

thomasross20

That's why I'm trying to decide if I really need:
Bright switch, presence, resonance, fat switch..

Alnico

thomasross20 said:

That's why I'm trying to decide if I really need:
Bright switch, presence, resonance, fat switch..

You really don't !

A good JCM800 needs nothing but a boost pedal and an intuitive player.

I strongly suggest that you do it like this.

Find an amp tech, a good one. You're up the top end so speak to @ICBM ,he knows a lot about what makes a good JCM.
If it were me i would be giving him the money to buy the amp which *he* thinks is the right one (I would also be paying him for his time with this. Then when the right amp arrives, have him strip it right down and recap, replace all suspect parts and give it the service of it's life. Pay the man and you have a 1st class ticket to sonic nirvana.

Job Done.

What you will get back is (Hopefully) a proper amp, as reliable as that model can be and you will get the best Value for money.

Even if you buy the amp, just give it to someone who knows and stick to the original design, at least to start with. You can always mod it later on.

@Nerine has nailed describing what this amp is.

My Dad would say (If he were talking to me) that if i can't get a good sound out of that amp, i shouldn't be near a guitar !

Just to address something else.
If you run a Plexi AND a JCM800 together through an ABY box, you get a whole 'nother sound which is huge. ACDC's Malcom Young did this with (I think* and i'm expecting to be corrected) a Plexi and a Plexi Super Bass. BIlly Duffy does a similar thing with an AC30 and JC120 so one is clean and the other giving him the 'Rock' sound.

This will detract from the purity of the JCM but it is another option and if one amp goes down, your backup amp is still there !

I had an '85 model JCM in '87 and it was astounding. Although the modern reissue has an effects loop, i would still buy an old one and have it reconditioned. Like @P90fool says, a good one is very good.

thomasross20

I think @ICBM is on holiday now. I would have taken his suggestion for the JCA22H but I wanted higher power for clean headroom. He's defo going to be my amp tech! I'm moving forward with Martin as having heard one of his amps in person and checking out his choices online, I think it's great value for a custom amp to my own spec.

p90fool

thomasross20 said:

I think @ICBM is on holiday now. I would have taken his suggestion for the JCA22H but I wanted higher power for clean headroom. He's defo going to be my amp tech! I'm moving forward with Martin as having heard one of his amps in person and checking out his choices online, I think it's great value for a custom amp to my own spec.

A wise move I think. If I was in the market for a perfectly sorted JCM800 I'd probably get Martin to build me one too. 

If you bought an original and wanted it totally overhauled and with a couple of well chosen mods then you're in the same price range anyway. 

thomasross20

I'm trying to get a dual-channel mini-Orion Electra Grind hybrid.... small and light as can be.
JCM (I think.... alternative is plexi + overdrive but I'm big into Slash tones... for plexi crunch I can always use a plexi pedal into clean...) with the second channel being Blackface clean - you know, proper clean..

I did think about cancelling the Victory V40 or getting an ID60 head instead, but I still like the idea of that small and lightweight pedal platform head.

thomasross20

These plexi tones sound killer:






That Sweet Child one - christ, amazing... making me question plexi vs JCM again lol. 

I@m trying to find a JCM video that sounds as good as that Slash one!