Gilmour toanz and the Big Muff ?

siraxeman

love Gilmours tone and style of play.....is it all just the loud HiWatts and a Big Muff ? I got a Nano Big Muff which is just a Big Muff in a smaller package, now I really struggle with this pedal - in isolation it sounds merely ok. When I tried it with the band a few times (I need to again, maybe with my SSS Strat) it was just this horrible fuzzy wasp in a jam jar tone that you'd expect better from such a legendry pedal. Unlike the RAT which i can quite enjoy at times - as its richer in the mids and cuts well...the Muff is a harder pedal for me to love. What is Gilmour doing besides the Big Muff and delays ? I know he uses (or used) to a CS-2 which I also have so maybe more experimenting but I'd love to get that tone, surely its not all just his magic fingers ? Big Muffs...stuff of legend, but I'd probably think similar if I ever got a Fuzz Face - I can enjoy Hendrix and Johnsons tones but when I watch demos on youtube I'm getting that same "why is this a classic tone ? " impression. I wonder if my love for smooth creamy, singing mid rich tones like Brian May makes it hard for me to love something so extremely opposite?

Gassage

Which era?

In answer to points above:

1. Muffs are always stacked into a BK TD or Colorsound Powerboost and then midboosted.

2. Compression- more MXR Dyna than CS2. But always there.

3. Delays- they're parallel mixed which is what makes them sound so huge.

4. The modern Big Muff is light years away from what he uses- currently it's a Sovtek Civil War and before that Ram's Head (2015) and before that the mighty Pete Cornish P1 (2006 tour)

5. Clean amp- any Fender will do the trick.

6. On a budget- RAT into a BD2 will do the trick nicely

7. Re your comment about May, DG also boosts mids hugely. His tone is shaped ^ always

8. Fingers- 80% of it, believe me.

9. Crank the dirt and amp, roll off a little on vol knob/pedal.

siraxeman

I love his Earls Court gig tone - Sorrow for example sounds MAHOOSIVE...(and loud to I know)

Gassage

^ Then add a CE2.

Most of those delays are a 2290 or the MXR System II parallel mixed with chorus on the signal POST delay.

siraxeman

does here seem to do a half decent Gilmour tone all buy itself.....see 1:33

 

juansolo

There is no one muff, there are loads of different variations of the thing due to how EHX used to make them (ie using whatever parts they had available). DG's main muff was likely an v2 Violet Rams Head. That said he bought another and it sounded nothing like, so he ended up having it modded to sound like his original because they even vary in parts between pedals that are referred to as the same thing... Now that's easy to do if you've got access to that original, but we don't so all you can do is speculate as to which is which.

I have built a staggering amount of muffs. I maintain a spreadsheet (actually two now) that contain a lot of derivatives on there. We've made an educated guess based on what we know and how it sounds as to the muff that's closest to the DG one and it's interesting how different it is to some of the others of the area (it's horrible for chords but awesome for single note playing). It's probably not it, and we'll never know unless DG loans us his number one for 30 mins to trace it. Which is all it would take. But it's what we think.

Now, as mentioned, a trait of the muff is a mid scoop. The severity of that scoop and where it is in the frequency range again vairies loads. So some just vanish in mixes. You can get around this two ways, either with a mid pot (implemented properly, plenty of people don't (Iron Bell)... Catlinbread have learned, curiously after we did it. I'm sure it's a coincidence, but I can't complain as we've traced one or two of their pedals... ) or using a different tone stack like Thorpy does. So that's something you want to deal with.

Then you've got the other thing that's been mentioned in that DG stacks his pedals in a big way. I built a couple of Gilmour in a box pedals and both had 4 to 5 effects in there to get that big endless sustaining sound.

We (well Tom) did a demo of some of the muffs we make. This is simply them into a delay with a looper running for some backing, into a Princeton set clean and running low volume. As I say, these are all muffs and sound quite different. The other thing is that all these have mids controls. L-R you've got the TSM680, a creation of ours in that it's a very aggressive muff, a 71 Triangle, a Violet Rams Head (the one mentioned before), and an Ultrastoner which is really not for this sort of thing... There are other demos that demonstrate what that's for.

Gassage

You could of course just read www.gilmourish.com

it has everything you need to know

professorben

Gassage said:

You could of course just read www.gilmourish.com

it has everything you need to know

Beat me to it, Bjorn from Airbag runs the site, what he don't know about Gilmour tone ain't worth knowing. 

Gassage

professorben said:

Gassage said:

You could of course just read www.gilmourish.com

it has everything you need to know

Beat me to it, Bjorn from Airbag runs the site, what he don't know about Gilmour tone ain't worth knowing. 

Except for the matter of the correct CNumb and Echoes dela settings, which I obtained off PT via Guy.....and were not what Bjorn said they were!

If anyone's heard the new Time intro-

3 Delays: 103ms (6 repeats), 309ms (two repeats) 412ms (one very loud repeat)

It took me some time to work that one out and did so with help of a mate. It sounds incredible. Utterly useless other than playing one note....

Winny_Pooh

Short answer: modern EHX muffs are more mid scooped than the vintage rams head models.

johnonguitar

Still don't get what the fuss is about

monquixote

If you want a one pedal solution into a clean amp the Wampler Velvet is great as it's already stacked.

stefken147

Also check out Buffalo FX Patriot and Evolution, and TD-X as well!

Jonathanthomas83

johnonguitar said:

Still don't get what the fuss is about

Always one isn't there!

johnonguitar

I actually went and listened to a bunch of Floyd after I wrote this and still nope. Don't get it. Love the music. Love Gilmours solo stuff. Don't mind his playing (basic pent shit but whatever, it works) just don't get the fascination with his sound. I guess his guitar does pop out of the track well but I don't know how much of that is down to digital remastering. Meh, each to their own 

Jonathanthomas83

Sounds like you're trying to kop the muff tones, but a massive part of my journey was nailing the clean tone. Shine On, for example. A major part of that is the pickup choice and the amp (I use a Lionheart and it sounds perfectly clean for Gilmour), and a nice compressor. The CS-2 is Gilmour compression in a box, well, old school Gilmour. Nowadays, he uses more subtle compression, but I'm not keen on that so stick with the squishy compression.

I've managed to get a good muff tone with the Thorpy and my Cornish (but they're boutique), but I guess more importantly, a single digital delay at between 400ms - 540ms (depending on song), with a slightly darker repeat works well. Mix in a bit of chorus for the 80s./90s era. 

My one piece of advice, as someone who has chased this tone for the best part of ten years...don't worry about getting the most expensive gear and don't worry about being absolutely spot on. There's so many factors which us mere mortals may never be able to account for. Best bet is to get the basics together (the aforementioned) and try to get the best out of those basics.

PS, Gilmour used a RAT, stick with that if you like it more. A RAT works perfectly well. Especially if you're running a Fender amp. It'll probably play better with it than a Muff (unless you boost the muff, as Gassage says).

siraxeman

Jonathanthomas83 said:

I've managed to get a good muff tone with the Thorpy and my Cornish (but they're boutique), but I guess more importantly, a single digital delay at between 400ms - 540ms (depending on song), with a slightly darker repeat works well. Mix in a bit of chorus for the 80s./90s era. 


PS, Gilmour used a RAT, stick with that if you like it more. A RAT works perfectly well. Especially if you're running a Fender amp. It'll probably play better with it than a Muff (unless you boost the muff, as Gassage says).

The Thorpy sounds almost identical to the EHX Nano BM on a certain Andertons comparison vid I watched recently! Don't know how much more expensive it is but soundwise I don't see any need to upgrade from my Nano BM. For now I really need to experiment with it some more...but the RAT 2 I have does definitely sound more gooder to my ears.

Jonathanthomas83

Well there you go, not saying by any stretch to go get a new Muff, it's all down to tastes fella and I'm sure you can get close with the Nano. The Muff thing can be a really difficult part to get right in any setup, let alone trying to kop Gilmour style stuff. 

Good luck with it fella

Beexter

stefken147 said:

Also check out Buffalo FX Patriot and Evolution, and TD-X as well!

This. I tried quite a few muff style pedals including the BYOC Large Beaver and Blackout Effectors Musket but could never get them to work for me. 

Got a Buffalo Evolution and there was the smooth soaring lead tone I'd been looking for.

Whitecat

The Mojo Hand Pompeii does a pretty uncanny 'Meddle'-era tone even through a simple rig... if you want that "Echoes" sound, it's almost too easy, once you set your delays correctly. 

stefken147

Yeah, I've a Blackout Effectors Seriously Special Twosome which has the blunderbus musket, sounds huge, probably good for something like 'Sorrow' but The Evolution just about nails the rest. Not a massive Gilmour fan tbh, but I've heard a lot of him over the years thanks to my dad, he does usually have a pretty good sound, and for me the Evolution does that sound.