What price point does a guitar purchase change from pure playability to having to think about resale

nickb_boy

Well I've always had a random figure of around £1500 in my head that I'd never consider purchasing a guitar over this value.  There's no set justification I guess it comes down to my current financial point and thinking beyond that value it's just not a justifiable amount to blow when family life needs to be funded.  Also for 1500 the scope for the level of quality builds you could get your hands on in the used market in my opinion reaches a point where spending more just equals rarity rather than improved playability or craftsmanship.  

The only way I would realistically consider spending more would be on a vintage piece such as a player grade 59/60 Les Paul Jnr or Jazzmaster that can still be had for not to extortionate prices but still above my moral price point.  In this kind of purchase the knowledge that there could be scope for future investment and the obvious mojo that goes with it could sway my justification on the price.

The other day however I started looking again at an Echopark Downtowner.  They're never going to win any beauty contests but there is something about them that just does something for me.  The only issue is the pricetag attached.  Sure they are one of the current companies where hand built actually means it and built from old growth select materials with a ridiculous waiting list, but the chances of these being an investment are probably slim.  They have some big name users such as Joe Perry and Josh Homme but a used echopark owned by me will never attract a higher price tag!

For some strange reason I keep finding myself looking over the pictures on World Guitars of the limited edition Koa top version they have in their used section, but at nearly 4k it's just looking like it'll have to stay window shopping unless they can do a very very generous non profitable deal for them lol

The chances are it would be a keeper and the value therefore is irrelevant but when we're talking car quantity money on a guitar that is likely to not be a viable investment over the years, it just puts me off.  It hasn't stopped me weighing up selling on a load of my current amps/guitars/pedals to replace it with this expensive piece of wood though!  Bloody GAS!!!

So I guess the point of this thread is:

Irrespective of current bank balance/gear funds available does anyone else have a random self imposed figure they try to keep their guitar purchases to?  

What is it that makes you select that price point and is there a specific item that would make you blow that total?

nickb_boy

Damn that was a long post!  Here's a pic of the offender in question to break up the waffling text:


I know it will be hated by most but that kind of makes it appeal even more

meltedbuzzbox

Never buy to invest. You buy to play. 

ICBM

When you can't get an equivalent guitar (meaning the same model and quality, not age) for the same money.

I would not pay more than that, although it's nice to know that something you use might retain or increase its value.

ie, I would never buy a vintage Fender for more than a CS Relic would cost. Which puts me out of the market, I know.

Jackobean

Totally relative price limits for me. As someone who buys and sells far too much shit, I'd be viewing such a purchase from its future potential as a depreciating asset. It would be less a question of whether I could afford the initial 4K, and more of whether I could afford to lose nearly half that in resale. 

nickb_boy

meltedbuzzbox said:

Never buy to invest. You buy to play. 

This is the thing.  At any usual price I'd be willing to pay this is the only thought that goes through my mind.  

But when playing guitar isn't my only source of income and purely just a hobby at the moment the thought of spending 4k on a luxurious item changes from pure fun and enjoyment of playing to worrying about the need to be able to cover a significant amount of the value if a family situation means I have to sell further down the line.  

Without being a professional musician or a millionaire i guess I've set a price at which the resale is irrelevant and at which it's just purely about the playing.  When that figure is 3 times that value though I doubt I'd be having 3 times the fun so I guess my thoughts turn to money tied up and likely depreciation. 

Roland

meltedbuzzbox said:

Never buy to invest. You buy to play. 

I'm far from convinced about the long term value of investment guitars. 

Whitecat

Guitars as an investment are a sucker's bet. 

That Downtowner was £5500 new - someone took a bath on it already. And if you've ever tried to sell a boutique build privately, you'll know just how f*cking hard it is to get anything fair for it. 

I see so many like that traded into dealers after having been on the open market for a long time, it ends up being the only way to flip 'em easily, and you know the dealer isn't paying "retail."

The best you can realistically hope for is that you get a killer guitar to play the crap out of and leave as a lovely gift for your kids when you're gone. 

ICBM

Roland said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

Never buy to invest. You buy to play. 

I'm far from convinced about the long term value of investment guitars. 

The only guitars I can see as being real investments in the long term are ones that already are - ie the already recognised vintage classics. Almost everything else is just a guitar, and I'd be very surprised if most are worth much in the long term, or certainly not more than what they are now, adjusted for inflation.

Look at the market for vintage violins and other classical instruments. Stradivari and other highly renowned early makers' violins are worth hundreds of thousands or even millions, others are worth tens of thousands - probably not a lot more than they cost new in real terms, if at all.

menamestom

The most I'd spend on a Fender is what a decent partscaster would cost. So £600 ish? Possibly I would go to a 2nd hand CS guitar, but the ones I have tried wouldn't justify the additional cost, but they are better as an investment in that they don't depreciate.  Gibson, I'd spend 3k on an early 60's ES330 If I had the money.  Not so much an as an investment, I'd play it at every opportunity.

Moe_Zambeek

The thing about Echopark in particular is...they came from nowhere, the builder doesn't seem to have much in the way of backstory, and the guitars are both rather ungainly looking and exceptionally expensive.

That adds up to flavour of the month / impossible to sell in 2 years to me. No way on earth I'd pay the asking for those. They have the whiff of clever marketing about them...like a manufactured band that 'appears from nowhere'. Could be wrong of course.

The only modern guitars I might take a punt on - at that price point - would be Gustavson, Michael Stevens or Teuffel (and even then only the Birdfish). They *might* break even longer term. 


Having said all that, if the Echopark absolutely speaks to you it could be the best guitar value ever, regardless of price. As long as you don't want to sell it .

i bought a CS strat that was more than I'd consider strats to be worth because it was a great guitar and I didn't think I'd realistically find better anywhere regardless of budget.

bazxkr

To me if I can afford it and want it that is the only proviso....if I take a hit on it down the road then so be it but at least I scratched the itch and got it out of my system

RaymondLin

Although I try never buy to invest, I do try to limit my liabilities by buying at the value they go for used, either by buy used, but it on sale or buy imported.

so in a way I don't have arbitrary number in mind but if I had to sell, i wont take a big hit.

Dave_Mc

Pretty much what ICBM said.

£1000 is probably the point where I start to think very hard about whether it's worth it or not. I realise that's because it's a very round figure, and that companies and marketing people realise that consumers tend to do that. :

JookyChap

For me it was always £500 tops as I can't imagine spending more than that will make me sound/play any better, although on that basis a £50 crack converter special...

stickyfiddle

I don't think I have a defined line, and I certainly don't have a fixed line that doesn't move with income and bank balance. By which I think I take on a case-by-case basis. I'm far more concerned about the Gretsch Electromatic that I have about 400 in (plus posh pickups which I could remove), in comparison to my custom Cabronita which is a one-off, so I honestly have no idea of the cash value, but I also know I won't sell it, so that doesn't worry me. 

Having said that, I'm also quite sure I wouldn't ever buy a CS Les Paul at 5k because the market quite clearly values them between 1800 and 3k depending on the exact model, and at some point I'll probably buy something in that range, whenever I stumble upon a black-top R7 or R8 that I can't resist. 

hobbio

nickb_boy said:

Damn that was a long post!  Here's a pic of the offender in question to break up the waffling text:


I know it will be hated by most but that kind of makes it appeal even more

That's an amazing looking guitar.

RaymondLin

There is one rule, don't buy on credit.  Guitar for me is not a livelihood so it's a luxury meaning if I can't afford to buy it outright, I don't buy it.  So that means I am not forever losing money in the long term and the money spent on day 1 is all the money lost, any future sale is 100% profit if that makes sense.

Whitecat

Moe_Zambeek said:

The thing about Echopark in particular is...they came from nowhere, the builder doesn't seem to have much in the way of backstory, and the guitars are both rather ungainly looking and exceptionally expensive.

That adds up to flavour of the month / impossible to sell in 2 years to me. No way on earth I'd pay the asking for those. They have the whiff of clever marketing about them...like a manufactured band that 'appears from nowhere'. Could be wrong of course.

http://upstart.bizjournals.com/entrepreneurs/hot-shots/2012/07/23/echopark-guitar-entrepreneur-goes-solo.html?page=all

Quite a bit of backstory, actually. Worked with Leo Fender at G&L directly before he passed away (as well as George Fullerton). 

This guy's not very different from Paul Reed Smith in the 80s... Make nice stuff, get a few guitars in the right hands and the rest follows. Except in this case, the market is way tougher, so the days of exponential growth are probably behind us, but if he can eke it out ok then good for him. 

usedtobe

Always said I'd never spend over a grand on a guitar. Most I have spent on a single guitar, is just under 500 sheets. Amount spent on many, many 200 to 400 quid guitars, I dread to think..

Skipped

There is another element that should be considered.
There will be many guys reading this thread who will find that GAS has cost them £10k or more, over (let's say) 10 or 15 years. Swopping guitars that are "just OK" and doing that often is expensive and arguably not very efficient.

In fact @usedtobe has just put it very well.