best small valve amp for home/practise use?

richardhomer

I'm probably in a minority of one - but Yamaha THRs sound awful to my ears.

viz

I would get a little carvin nomad. Here's a head for 300 quid but you can normally pick up the combo for 250, or sometimes a combo and an extension 1x12 for 450. I've been sorely tempted a few times. 

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carvin-Vintage-Tube-Nomad-50-valve-head-/361679154321?hash=item5435c1ec91:g:mhEAAOSwvg9XVCpZ&_trkparms=pageci%3A591ccc05-61f5-11e6-b121-005056b041ad%7Cparentrq%3A88122a701560a2af6f3af422fff34a34%7Ciid%3A1

ICBM

richardhomer said:

I'm probably in a minority of one - but Yamaha THRs sound awful to my ears.

I really must try one for real - I've only heard clips, and from those I agree with you.

So imagine my surprise to be massively impressed with the THR100 head...

It was going through a Marshall 4x12" though, so it may be the speakers that make the little one sound bad.

Or the Youtube players .

richardhomer

ICBM said:

richardhomer said:

I'm probably in a minority of one - but Yamaha THRs sound awful to my ears.

I really must try one for real - I've only heard clips, and from those I agree with you.

So imagine my surprise to be massively impressed with the THR100 head...

It was going through a Marshall 4x12" though, so it may be the speakers that make the little one sound bad.

Or the Youtube players .

I've tried a couple - the 'normal' one with various hi-gain models, and the one which does lower-gain/edge of break-up stuff (I can't remember the actual model numbers).

The cleans on both sounded middly - there was no real sparkle or 'air' to them - no better that most cheaper solid state practice amps I've heard.

The drives really lacked any kind of usable touch-sensitivity - not valve-like at all.

Given their price, I was massively underwhelmed.

bingefeller

guitargeek62 said:

Cornell Romany or Plexi, the 1/10w option is fantastic for home use, and they sound superb anyway!

I have owned both those amps and _I_ found the 1/10w way too loud to crank at home.  They did sound good, especially the Plexi - like classic Schenker.  

What about a hybrid amp @hootsmon ?  I had one of the first Vox Valvetronix amps and it sounded good and had a control on the back that you could turn down the wattage. 

thomasross20

I need to experience this cranking... @ICBM's Mesa sounded fab whether at masif or min master volume. I'd not be keen on any amp that has some sweet spot at half volume or whatever

thomasross20

http://www.guitarplayer.com/miscellaneous/1139/5-things-about-reducing-amp-volume/21703

Apparently some manufacturers make inefficient speakers on purpose for home us!

fretfinder

viz said:

I would get a little carvin nomad. Here's a head for 300 quid but you can normally pick up the combo for 250, or sometimes a combo and an extension 1x12 for 450. I've been sorely tempted a few times. 

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carvin-Vintage-Tube-Nomad-50-valve-head-/361679154321?hash=item5435c1ec91:g:mhEAAOSwvg9XVCpZ&_trkparms=pageci%3A591ccc05-61f5-11e6-b121-005056b041ad%7Cparentrq%3A88122a701560a2af6f3af422fff34a34%7Ciid%3A1

Dan said:

Wazmeister said:

Carr Sportsman

+1 just brilliant. 

The Carr is approx 20 watts with no attenuation, the Carvin is 50 watts and no attenuation. Not exactly home amps surely?

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

http://www.guitarplayer.com/miscellaneous/1139/5-things-about-reducing-amp-volume/21703

Apparently some manufacturers make inefficient speakers on purpose for home us!

That's a bit of a red herring - they don't make even close to enough difference. The best you can achieve with inefficient speakers is about a 6dB reduction, which is only equivalent to a quarter of the amp power, so any normal amp will still be far too loud. Maybe 10dB if you also reduce the size as well (eg going from an efficient 12" to an inefficient 6") - but that will also very seriously alter the tone, probably in a way you won't like.

Eminence make a speaker which actually has a sensitivity control on it - a big dial on the back of the magnet - but even that starts to sound progressively less good as you reduce the sensitivity, and I don't think achieves more than about 10dB reduction at best.

Gassage

If anyone ever answers this correctly, then there will be no need for any guitar forums ever.

(except for Offset owners to argue about bridge choice)

thomasross20

Thanks. @ICBM, that knocks out one option!

JezWynd

ICBM said:

thomasross20 said:

http://www.guitarplayer.com/miscellaneous/1139/5-things-about-reducing-amp-volume/21703

Apparently some manufacturers make inefficient speakers on purpose for home us!

That's a bit of a red herring - they don't make even close to enough difference. The best you can achieve with inefficient speakers is about a 6dB reduction, which is only equivalent to a quarter of the amp power, so any normal amp will still be far too loud. Maybe 10dB if you also reduce the size as well (eg going from an efficient 12" to an inefficient 6") - but that will also very seriously alter the tone, probably in a way you won't like.

Quite right. I went to the trouble of sourcing an inefficient speaker in an attempt to tame a customised Excelsior. The difference it made was minimal.

viz

fretfinder said:

viz said:

I would get a little carvin nomad. Here's a head for 300 quid but you can normally pick up the combo for 250, or sometimes a combo and an extension 1x12 for 450. I've been sorely tempted a few times. 

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carvin-Vintage-Tube-Nomad-50-valve-head-/361679154321?hash=item5435c1ec91:g:mhEAAOSwvg9XVCpZ&_trkparms=pageci%3A591ccc05-61f5-11e6-b121-005056b041ad%7Cparentrq%3A88122a701560a2af6f3af422fff34a34%7Ciid%3A1

Dan said:

Wazmeister said:

Carr Sportsman

+1 just brilliant. 

The Carr is approx 20 watts with no attenuation, the Carvin is 50 watts and no attenuation. Not exactly home amps surely?

Well yes I suppose you're right - we don't really worry about noise much. Maybe I don't really understand what's meant by pratice amp for home use - I mean I use two 100 watt Carvins in stereo in our kitchen / diner - is that excessive? I know the Nomad works really well with the volume turned down, it still sounds very beautiful, clear, punchy and aggressive. 

ICBM

viz said:

fretfinder said:

The Carr is approx 20 watts with no attenuation, the Carvin is 50 watts and no attenuation. Not exactly home amps surely?

Well yes I suppose you're right - we don't really worry about noise much. Maybe I don't really understand what's meant by pratice amp for home use - I mean I use two 100 watt Carvins in stereo in our kitchen / diner - is that excessive? I know the Nomad works really well with the volume turned down, it still sounds very beautiful, clear, punchy, agressive. 

This is what it's all about. The actual power of the amp has almost no bearing on how suitable it is for home practice. Factors like how well the master volume works at low settings and whether the EQ suits playing quietly are far more important.

[/stuck record]

prudd

Im not just saying this 'cos Im selling one, but Ive always thought the Egnater Tweaker 15 watter was a great home use amp, always manage to get some great tones at low volume levels, also it takes pedals very well.

Nomad

hootsmon said:

any love for the CUB 10?

The single tone control is more limited than a 3-band EQ, but the overall tone is well mannered - not harsh, not dull, and the tonal range is pretty good. The stock HH branded speaker is okay but nothing special (reputed to be much better than the Celestion Tube 10 that they were originally fitted with).

It goes pretty loud when cranked, but can start to sound a bit boxy. Clean notes can sound a bit harsh at times when it's up loud, but I'm not sure if that's how my ears are responding or maybe the speaker. Plugged into a Harley Benton 1x12 V30 cab, it sounds bigger and tthere's a bit less top end. Loud with this amp is a weekend afternoon thing - if it was a TV, it would be considered blaring and way too loud. At sensible home volumes, it's fine - good bottom end and generally more balanced sounding. For clean playing, I'd say the tonal character leans towards sweet sounding (or slightly dark, depending on your perspective), especially for single note melodies and broken chords. That sweetness carries over into the edge-of-breakup clean sound, and the transition between clean and breaking up is easy to control with pick attack.

The amount of drive with the gain at max is in hard rock territory when playing chords/riffs with PAF-style humbuckers - about AC/DC crunch levels with the master well down (so no power amp distortion). Not enough gain for me when playing lead, but it can be pushed into high gain sounds with a clean boost or overdrive. With amp crunch, it cleans up nicely with the guitar volume control, whether used with pre-amp gain or the power amp overdriven. Again, it can sound a bit boxy when cranked up, and this improves through the V30 cab. The drive channel is a bit milder with the single coils on the Red Special, and I'd want to use a pedal with that to get a bit more crunch.

For home use at TV volumes, with a variety of sounds, especially if reverbs and the like are included, it's better used clean with pedals in front - it does take pedals well, and the tone can be further tweaked with an EQ pedal. The boxiness isn't really evident at sensible volumes when jamming along with TV or stereo.

I originally bought mine to use with harmonica (and it was too loud), which led to me rebooting my guitar playing (which had stalled for a few years). If I was looking for such an amp now, I'd probably want to try the Cub 12R as well. It costs £90-100 more, but it could be argued that the 12" speaker, 3-band EQ (plus the 'tone' found in the Cub 10), effects loop and low power mode are a lot of extra features that might be worth the increased spend.

Overall, I'd say the Cub 10 is more versatile than the limited feature set suggests, although some of the sounds require it to be cranked up. It's really a bit too loud for power amp crunch at home unless you have co-habitants and neighbours that are either tolerant or prone to going out for a couple of hours, leaving you to rock out. I'd consider a speaker upgrade if it was to be my permanent home amp, although it's notable that most people that post reviews decide that the speaker is sufficiently okay to not bother upgrading. I didn't either, but I got a Blues Deluxe instead and that's been my home amp ever since (I plugged into the Cub 10 today for the first time in months).

Would I buy a new Cub 10 today? Probably not. I'd definitely shop around - I'd at least try the Cub 12R and if I liked it, maybe seek one out second hand for similar money to a new Cub 10. By the same token, a new Cub 12R is getting close to used prices for amps that are better again. On the other hand, a used Cub 10 could work out pretty cheap (and cheerful) and probably sell on for the same price.

Dan

fretfinder said:

The Carr is approx 20 watts with no attenuation, the Carvin is 50 watts and no attenuation. Not exactly home amps surely?

On my Carr Sportsman 1 x 12, if I crank the volume and mids but keep the master volume low, I get a very nice edge of breakup with single coils and with humbuckers it gets almost tweed type dirt. All at respectable TV/home theater/hifi type levels. 

Dave_Mc

ICBM said:

thomasross20 said:

http://www.guitarplayer.com/miscellaneous/1139/5-things-about-reducing-amp-volume/21703

Apparently some manufacturers make inefficient speakers on purpose for home us!

That's a bit of a red herring - they don't make even close to enough difference. The best you can achieve with inefficient speakers is about a 6dB reduction, which is only equivalent to a quarter of the amp power, so any normal amp will still be far too loud. Maybe 10dB if you also reduce the size as well (eg going from an efficient 12" to an inefficient 6") - but that will also very seriously alter the tone, probably in a way you won't like.

Yep. I have the 6" Jensen Mod (sensitivity ~ 90dB, which is about as low as guitar speakers go) in a Fame Tube 5 (basically a glorified Champion 600), and while it does lower the volume noticeably, it's still too loud if you want to stand in the same room as the amp (at least for my ears). And that's with a 5 watt amp. And as you said, that little 6" speaker doesn't sound much like a 12" speaker either.

ICBM said:

viz said:

fretfinder said:

The Carr is approx 20 watts with no attenuation, the Carvin is 50 watts and no attenuation. Not exactly home amps surely?

Well yes I suppose you're right - we don't really worry about noise much. Maybe I don't really understand what's meant by pratice amp for home use - I mean I use two 100 watt Carvins in stereo in our kitchen / diner - is that excessive? I know the Nomad works really well with the volume turned down, it still sounds very beautiful, clear, punchy, agressive. 

This is what it's all about. The actual power of the amp has almost no bearing on how suitable it is for home practice. Factors like how well the master volume works at low settings and whether the EQ suits playing quietly are far more important.

[/stuck record]

Also yep.

Exorcist

Another vote for the tweaker 15, great for home volume and very versatile. VHT special 6 is also great, but needs pedals for dirt. For the price I don't think either can be beat. (VHT is even hand wired)

ourmaninthenorth

Emery Sound Micro Baby.

For me,...end of errand.