Photo processing machine - spec?

ThePrettyDamned

I've a feeling I've done this thread before... 

I'm potentially going to be a bit of a photographer in time - not right now, but perhaps in a year or so. In the mean time, I will be gaining experience and building funds for equipment. 

One particular piece of equipment I know less about is the computer. I have been advised it's better to build your own, which is supposed to be quite simple if you're careful. 

I have also been advised that graphics cards are not important for Lightroom and Photoshop. I'd like one but more to do the job if I want to play diablo for an hour rather than because I fancy linking three screens and pwning some n00bz. 

And speaking of the screen, I'd like a quite colour accurate one with high resolution. 

And, preferably, not a mac. The amount they charge for hard drives is a bit mental. 

As far as I understand, I want a quad core with some real power in it, possibly over clock it a smidgen if I wanted, a case that's quiet and has decent air flow, a couple of good fans, a fairly basic graphics card, an SSD for the operating system and batches of photos (doesn't need to be insanely big, 128gb or 256gb would probably do the trick?), a massive and fast disk drive (a tb or two?) for permanent storage, and another to back that up.

I have a monitor, but it's only HD and 24 inch. Not bad, but ideally I could use something a hair bigger with more resolution. Colour accuracy would be good, but I don't have all the money in the world so I can be reasonable. 

What price range am I looking at, for both tower and screen? I don't know my i3s from my i7s, and  I don't know modern monitors. I've done research but there is conflicting opinion and out of date information. One thing I have worked out is it seems the i5s offer the best bang for buck, and are probably adequate for what I want. 

I'm not worried about massive gaming power, but I sometimes blend several photos in photoshop. Not a problem with the 10mp d200 but if I step up to a d750, each layer will be about twice the size and it's a lot of crunch work. Also, there is an element of time being money and I'd rather not have to wait hours for a 500 shots to be imported (currently on my laptop it would take about 40 minutes to import 350 10mp raw files...). 

Any advice from computer or photo taking folk very welcome. 

stickyfiddle

I can't talk specs, but in terms of "doing photography", what do you mean? Weddings? Product? Modelling? Creative/Art stuff?

If you plan on working away from your home/studio then it would be MUCH better to have a laptop than desktop. 

I know you've said no to Mac, but honestly a Macbook Pro with an external hard drive is all you need. 

Alnico

@strumjoughlamps is a very good photographer. I'm sure he would know.

@RaymondLin ;
Is a very good photographer also.

There is also a large amount of forum members who are great at photoshop and the PC side of this.

I used to be into photography when i was younger but i was all paper and chemicals and i was using film. I can tell you all about darkrooms etc but i don't think it will be of any use.

Best of luck

ThePrettyDamned

stickyfiddle said:

I can't talk specs, but in terms of "doing photography", what do you mean? Weddings? Product? Modelling? Creative/Art stuff?

If you plan on working away from your home/studio then it would be MUCH better to have a laptop than desktop. 

I know you've said no to Mac, but honestly a Macbook Pro with an external hard drive is all you need. 

They're so expensive though... 

I can't say for certain but events, portrait, modelling and product are very likely (it's what I enjoy). I also have experience as a "technical" photographer in the scientific research industry. This is probably the most unique thing to me, so I'll likely start advertising to research teams who need publication quality photos, both in the field and in the lab. The lab stuff is all detail - hence focus stacking for infinite depth of field. That needs some serious number crunching power - it can take a lot of time to get 20-40 images blended. 

I'll reconsider my mac view point if there is a truly good reason. And you're right, a laptop would be useful - but I wonder if any laptop can do that kind of crunching fast without generating tons of heat. My current (i5 2.3ghz, disk drive, 2gb graphics and 8gb ram) will often freeze up doing 5-10 shots, but is fine for on-the-go Lightroom stuff, which is 99 percent of the other stuff covered. I'm a lighting freak so I don't often need photoshop beyond the more heavily altered stylistic look. 

ThePrettyDamned

Alnico said:

@strumjoughlamps is a very good photographer. I'm sure he would know.

@RaymondLin ;
Is a very good photographer also.

There is also a large amount of forum members who are great at photoshop and the PC side of this.

I used to be into photography when i was younger but i was all paper and chemicals and i was using film. I can tell you all about darkrooms etc but i don't think it will be of any use.

Best of luck

Although a bit of a young fella, I'm more of a film shooter for fun. Still develop myself, too  

But digital is useful for technical and strobing as well as a nice, quick turnaround to supply images. 

I actually wouldn't mind chatting to @raymondlin at some point to learn more about the industry from the legal and business side. Perhaps a book to recommend...? 

strumjoughlamps

My current editing machine is an old desktop that runs LR etc no problem, hooked to to an Eizo colouredge. And that pretty much sums up my advice.. a good chunk of money to go on the monitor.. also don't skimp on mouse/tablet/trackball.

On the go editing = Mac

ThePrettyDamned

strumjoughlamps said:

My current editing machine is an old desktop that runs LR etc no problem, hooked to to an Eizo colouredge. And that pretty much sums up my advice.. a good chunk of money to go on the monitor.. also don't skimp on mouse/tablet/trackball.

On the go editing = Mac

Whew, those Eizo screens don't come cheap. That said, I edited some shots on my laptop, uploaded to Facebook, had a look on my phone and they looked hideously cartoony and vivid. Horrible. 

I'll see if there are any used ones around I suspect - I do have a monitor, so if I can get the tower sorted within the coming few months (say, by early next year?) I can keep my eyes peeled for a used, decent monitor. 

I wonder if I'm asking for way more power than I truly need. Ram is fairly cheap, and a smaller ssd will hopefully speed up the importing and loading of images during processing - then they'll get sent across to another hard drive anyway, so having tons of storage space on the ssd isn't really necessary. A smaller 64gb would do, and looks to bring the cost down a lot. 

Do you need to calibrate the monitor at all? 

Also, can you recommend a mouse, tablet, trackball etc? I won't be massively heavily using photoshop, it will be more about Lab adjustments, focus blending (which will be the most intensive task by far I should think) and other actions in the Photography workspace - I don't think It'll be a horribly heavy usage, Lightroom and camera raw does 99 percent of the hard work really.  

RaymondLin

What you need to do, in my opinion, is get a computer as powerful as you can.

I bought the top of the range iMac when I got it, it breaks down as follows:-

Screen - a nice large (or dual monitor) screen with 10-bit colour, IPS screen.  I want good viewing angles and good colour reproduction.

CPU, just as fast as you can afford

RAM - as much as you can, you can never have enough.

HDD - I use external, WD Duo running in raid so it backs itself up.  (i also have a NAS for archiving)

GFX - actually in the latest adobe update they start to take advantage of this, and will even more in the future.  So get a FAST GFX if you can.

You need to calibrate the monitor, else you will get images different than the ones you are editing on.

I have a Wacom Intuso Pro medium for photoshop work, I use a mouse in LR.

ThePrettyDamned

RaymondLin said:

What you need to do, in my opinion, is get a computer as powerful as you can.

I bought the top of the range iMac when I got it, it breaks down as follows:-

Screen - a nice large (or dual monitor) screen with 10-bit colour, IPS screen.  I want good viewing angles and good colour reproduction.

CPU, just as fast as you can afford

RAM - as much as you can, you can never have enough.

HDD - I use external, WD Duo running in raid so it backs itself up.  (i also have a NAS for archiving)

GFX - actually in the latest adobe update they start to take advantage of this, and will even more in the future.  So get a FAST GFX if you can.

You need to calibrate the monitor, else you will get images different than the ones you are editing on.

I have a Wacom Intuso Pro medium for photoshop work, I use a mouse in LR.

Interesting. This is in tune with what I have heard from others - they also said not to bother upgrading camera anytime soon as 10mp is enough and the d200 is a tough bugger. They said lighting, even budget, wireless and the computer/monitor are way more important than cameras and lenses. 

Which is fine - I love how the d200 handles, and it does great shots - it can't be pushed as hard in Lightroom or camera raw before noise creeps in, but I've never thought, "bah, if only I had a better camera" so much as how composing with a crop sensor is a pain being used to full frame. I also have hss, 1/250th sync and a wireless ttl set up with it, which is nice at times. 

Interesting about the graphics cards, too. 

Mind if I pm you later about the industry itself? I've been assisting a photographer recently which is teaching me a lot but it is always good to get another view point. I'm good with photography - but business itself is a new avenue to explore. 

Unorthodox

You'll definitely want to get yourself a decent colourimeter. I've been using the X-Rite ColorMunki Photo for years now, fantastic bit of kit. Makes all the difference having the confidence that what you see on screen is accurate and knowing that when you hit print it will look just the same.

Computer wise, if you're doing events you'll want a laptop. I know they're expensive but if you can splash the cash, shoot for a Macbook Pro. 

Also invest in a cheap Wacom tablet or similar. Local adjustments in Lightroom or masking in Photoshop is a joy with a pen and tablet, and can be a downright nightmare with a mouse.

ThePrettyDamned

Unorthodox said:

You'll definitely want to get yourself a decent colourimeter. I've been using the X-Rite ColorMunki Photo for years now, fantastic bit of kit. Makes all the difference having the confidence that what you see on screen is accurate and knowing that when you hit print it will look just the same.

Computer wise, if you're doing events you'll want a laptop. I know they're expensive but if you can splash the cash, shoot for a Macbook Pro. 

Also invest in a cheap Wacom tablet or similar. Local adjustments in Lightroom or masking in Photoshop is a joy with a pen and tablet, and can be a downright nightmare with a mouse.

Would an older macbook pro do "the trick" assuming an ssd, decent ram and Lightroom use mostly? Can't imagine needing photoshop in the field, the local adjustment brush in lr is awesome. 

Unorthodox

I'm on a 2012 MBPr (2.6ghz i7, 16GB RAW, 256GBSSD etc). Handles 24MP RAWs perfectly fine all day long no issue. Only downside is the small size of the SSD, but I often offload LR catalogs onto my raid archive so it's not that much of an issue.

My primary reason for moving to Mac from previously using Windows laptops was the screen. I couldn't find something that matched that retina screen in a Windows machine. My previous laptop had a godawful viewing angle. The black level would change depending on your head position to the screen, even calibrated it was plain shit.

ThePrettyDamned

Unorthodox said:

I'm on a 2012 MBPr (2.6ghz i7, 16GB RAW, 256GBSSD etc). Handles 24MP RAWs perfectly fine all day long no issue. Only downside is the small size of the SSD, but I often offload LR catalogs onto my raid archive so it's not that much of an issue.

My primary reason for moving to Mac from previously using Windows laptops was the screen. I couldn't find something that matched that retina screen in a Windows machine. My previous laptop had a godawful viewing angle. The black level would change depending on your head position to the screen, even calibrated it was plain shit.

I feel like blowing money on a macbook pro is premature before having a good desktop. Perhaps I'm wrong - maybe a screen at home to plug the macbook into would work?

Apple are rip off merchants though. They want over 350 quid to go from 4gb ram to 32! In a desktop! 

I can't help but wonder if it offers value - a used one could work for on the go, but that's money that could go towards a good monitor for a pc set up at home. 

Hmm. 

stickyfiddle

The point is, if you get an MBP you don't need a desktop at all.

ThePrettyDamned

stickyfiddle said:

The point is, if you get an MBP you don't need a desktop at all.

Ahhh okay - that makes sense. So a monitor at home, mbp for everything. 

That's an idea. 

RaymondLin

If you never take the machine out then get a desktop, I think the 27" model you can upgrade the ram yourself, something you can't do with a MPB these days.  This will save you some money another screen on the iMac are excellent.  They actually come calibrated at factory.  FWIW, I tend to buy the top spec one, Max it out and it tend to last me the entire camera generation which is about 4 years before I upgrade again.  The machine will be still good for web and general stuff but more pixels and larger files with the software generally be more bloated as each update, you kind of forced to keep up.

stickyfiddle

Of course there's always the next question the chaps on talkphotography would say which is "what's your business plan?". i.e. how do actually plan to get out and pay the bills by taking *and selling* photographs? 

Obviously having good kit is important but being a successful photographer full-time is 50% hard work & networking, 40% technical skills (with clients, with the camera, and with LR/PS) and 10% is the kit you do all that with. It sounds like you're already plenty aware that the business side is very important, but do make sure you have a decent handle on it before you commit to a 1.5k computer!

Axe_meister

Unless you are going to massive amounts of batch processing you really don't need anything stupidly fast.
A quad core i5 at 2.8 GHz will be more that adequate. Lots of memory and large SSD will be far more important.
In terms of monitors, Dell ultra sharp monitors are great and come sRGB calibrated out of the box.

DefaultM

Who the fuck just plays Diablo for an hour?

ThePrettyDamned

stickyfiddle said:

Of course there's always the next question the chaps on talkphotography would say which is "what's your business plan?". i.e. how do actually plan to get out and pay the bills by taking *and selling* photographs? 

Obviously having good kit is important but being a successful photographer full-time is 50% hard work & networking, 40% technical skills (with clients, with the camera, and with LR/PS) and 10% is the kit you do all that with. It sounds like you're already plenty aware that the business side is very important, but do make sure you have a decent handle on it before you commit to a 1.5k computer!

Absolutely. 

This isn't being taken lightly - and it'll be some time before I start dropping serious wads of cash. 

I'm networking with some photographers near me to get experience and work out some business sense and the legal stuff. So as well as working as a photographer in a  technical and scientific sense, I'm getting experience out on shoots. Hopefully I can glean some business and legal information, as well as more logistics. 

I've also written to a couple of folk on here to see if they can help - there is, after all, no substitute for experience and I want to go in eyes open. I hope to get replies, but photographers are busy people if anyone on this thread would like to write with their experiences or thoughts, please do. Even if entirely negative! I'm still young, and won't be going independent and pro for some time - it's too risky for me right now, so this will be an ongoing project/goal. 

I could consider a 27 inch imac but they really cost serious dough - particularly given the difficulty of upgrading parts. A macbook pro would let me take it out, but I don't know how much I'd realistically do that. However, I will be having a laptop from work for the last six weeks of my internship so it'll be interesting to see how I cope with a mere 15 inch screen. That could help me make up my mind (though it's a windows pc). 

Is there any advantage to going Mac over windows 10, given a similar cost to the build (including a monitor and os)? 

ThePrettyDamned

DefaultM said:

Who the fuck just plays Diablo for an hour?

Between work, caring for nan, babysitting my girlfriends younger brother and volunteering my time for experience, I don't even get an hour these days. 

I've not played it for weeks.:(