Photo processing machine - spec?

Jimbro66

For the past couple of years I have been using a 64-bit Windows-based desktop for photo processing using Photoshop and Lightroom with Nik Software plugins. At that time I also needed it to run 3D CAD visualisation applications. My camera produces c30MB DNG files.

The spec is: Quad Core i7-3770 3.4GHz processor, 16GB Dual-DDR3 RAM, 2GB AMD Radeon graphics card, 120GB SSD, 2TB SATA III HDD partitioned into three drives, DVD/Blu-Ray drive, 650W power supply and additional CPU cooling. Plus Eizo monitor and Seagate 2TB external HDD.

It has coped admirably with all the processing demands I've thrown at it but I do now wish I'd gone for a larger SSD  -  space is running out.

The computer was built to my specification by PC Specialist in Wakefield at reasonable cost.

A windows-based system was needed at that time to run the CAD packages I was using but if I was buying a new system now primarily for photographic processing I would probably opt for Mac and, as others have suggested, a MBP. In the meantime, the system I have is doing a great job.

Edit: I also use an X-rite ColorMunki for screen calibration.

Axe_meister

What sort of photo processing are you going to to? If it just a few curves/contrast/standard filters you could do it in an i3. Memory and disk is where it counts

ThePrettyDamned

Axe_meister said:

What sort of photo processing are you going to to? If it just a few curves/contrast/standard filters you could do it in an i3. Memory and disk is where it counts

Generally that, but also some focus blending, which is very intense and crashes machines. Getting 20-40 raw files loaded as layers and blending them is time consuming. 

Axe_meister

In which case maybe get an older 8 or more core Xeon processor.

strumjoughlamps

Axe_meister said:

In which case maybe get an older 8 or more core Xeon processor.

Listen to the man, he speaketh with a smart tongue.

ThePrettyDamned

strumjoughlamps said:

Axe_meister said:

In which case maybe get an older 8 or more core Xeon processor.

Listen to the man, he speaketh with a smart tongue.

Had not considered that. 

I was looking at the i5 6600k - 3.5ghz quad core, which is powerful and should easily be enough for photo editing, time lapse etc but I wonder if an older xeon could be cheaper and/or better. 

Ram - it sounds like I should dive in head first and get 32gb. It's not a massive extra cost so I may as well not skimp. 

I've priced up an i5 system with an iiyama (?) 30" display (more than Adobe rgb colours), 2gb nvidia 960 graphics, 500gb ssd, 2tb drive and 2tb external for backup and 32gb ram which sounds very powerful for all but heavy gaming. It's about 1.8k after build cost and delivery from cyber power systems. 

Now, that's a lot - I think a used monitor could be a good idea, even if it means a smaller one - it would certainly get me going. I may also go smaller ssd. 250gb would be enough with regular backup in my workflow - maintain the ssd being exported files while raw data and export backups live on the disk drives after processing. 

But basically - that's well into Mac territory. I'm glad I'm thinking about all of this well, well in advance - I hadn't considered that some monitors don't even have the right number of colours for accurate reproduction. 

Big food for thought. With luck, I can get a job that let's me work within a photographic realm more long term while I save up the money. 

I've also found a couple of photographic business books, which are en route. Hopefully it'll help me work out overheads, marketing, pricing etc. One of them is UK specific, too. 

Jez6345789

I think from a lifetime of PC experience is if you are going to do photography on it then make it a dedicated machine. 
There is always shit in emails and downloads that brings a PC to its knees. Turn off autoupdate. Make sure you have the type of windows license that lets you change hardware which you will do from time to time upgrading or adding drives. My friend was totally locked out of his Windows Music PC as he changed too much hardware during a belt of upgrading. (Not sure if they have changed this now but it is a nightmare to get them to reauthorise the OS). 

RAID is vital as is a decent raided backup solution and if you are doing it for money then some sort of remote location backup is worth considering incase the house burns down. 

A big SSD will speed things up.

If there is a lot of post processing then MAX memory and a quadcore is essential you just need the grunt. 

I moved to MAC simply because I was tired of dealing with Windows, and its issues I have a PC on the office desk but I run my world on a MAC there is a lot of positive things including longevity. My 2008 MACbook pro is still running fine and working as my recording studio with an SSD upgrade. My 24 month old MACBook pro retina is still way faster than the equivalent Dell Windows desktop machine  bought at the same time that now crawls along and probably needs a good old clean up and windows reinstall. These days I do not have the time to be the computer Geek upgrading adding bits in and out. 

Simply look at it this way if you make money from what you do and having a Mac makes that easier yes it will cost you more but in the scheme of things its nothing in comparison to dealing with computer issues. Nothing is perfect in the world of computers but Apple is a few degrees closer than most windows machines I have owned. 

The so called Apple premium is nothing if you think about it over the life of a working PC 3 years say. Compare that to the time you spend tinkering with a PC adjusting this optimising that. 

hywelg

First thing to do is to go and properly learn about Colour Management. And DO NOT assume that Adobe does it right. There are alternatives to Lightroom, do some research. Aftershot is decent and doesn't come withe the Adobe subscription problem. 

Image management will become a problem eventually. You need to think about this right from the word go. Image tagging, filenaming,  copyrighting, etc etc...... You need to start right, with a few Tb's of data there's no way you'd go back and start again. 

Backups.  NAS's were mentioned above. Do it. Make it your main data store and you will be able to access you data anywhere. Make it a RAID  and you get hardware protection. Back it up daily offsite. Learn about the differences between Synchronisation (can be fatal in some circumstances), Contribute, and Echo (in Windows, Mac world probably calls it something else). 

Sorry to give so much more to think about!

ThePrettyDamned

hywelg said:

First thing to do is to go and properly learn about Colour Management. And DO NOT assume that Adobe does it right. There are alternatives to Lightroom, do some research. Aftershot is decent and doesn't come withe the Adobe subscription problem. 

Image management will become a problem eventually. You need to think about this right from the word go. Image tagging, filenaming,  copyrighting, etc etc...... You need to start right, with a few Tb's of data there's no way you'd go back and start again. 

Backups.  NAS's were mentioned above. Do it. Make it your main data store and you will be able to access you data anywhere. Make it a RAID  and you get hardware protection. Back it up daily offsite. Learn about the differences between Synchronisation (can be fatal in some circumstances), Contribute, and Echo (in Windows, Mac world probably calls it something else). 

Sorry to give so much more to think about!

Not at all, this is important.

I've been using Adobe Lightroom/bridge for a while now and I have an excellent, well managed, well keywords and metadata'd system in place at work that o helped to put in place. Other software may do it but I know my way around Lightroom very well, and regardless of the ethics of the subscription service (eurgh) I think it's a good place for me to start - purely because I've got a lot of experience wiit it. 

I've done some colour management reading and it looks tricky - I have a source of print services so I can ask them for guidance based on their output. I have tried to take this into account at work but as they have only a standard monitor I can only preserve the raw,xmp and tif master files for the event that the edits are unsuitable for media beyond standard rgb monitors. Re-editing isn't ideal bit at least it's possible. For myself,getting a good screen and understanding colour management should minimise this - I've read that Lightroom is good for it, no better or worse than most editors. I stand to be corrected though!

ThePrettyDamned

Jez6345789 said:

I think from a lifetime of PC experience is if you are going to do photography on it then make it a dedicated machine. 
There is always shit in emails and downloads that brings a PC to its knees. Turn off autoupdate. Make sure you have the type of windows license that lets you change hardware which you will do from time to time upgrading or adding drives. My friend was totally locked out of his Windows Music PC as he changed too much hardware during a belt of upgrading. (Not sure if they have changed this now but it is a nightmare to get them to reauthorise the OS). 

RAID is vital as is a decent raided backup solution and if you are doing it for money then some sort of remote location backup is worth considering incase the house burns down. 

A big SSD will speed things up.

If there is a lot of post processing then MAX memory and a quadcore is essential you just need the grunt. 

I moved to MAC simply because I was tired of dealing with Windows, and its issues I have a PC on the office desk but I run my world on a MAC there is a lot of positive things including longevity. My 2008 MACbook pro is still running fine and working as my recording studio with an SSD upgrade. My 24 month old MACBook pro retina is still way faster than the equivalent Dell Windows desktop machine  bought at the same time that now crawls along and probably needs a good old clean up and windows reinstall. These days I do not have the time to be the computer Geek upgrading adding bits in and out. 

Simply look at it this way if you make money from what you do and having a Mac makes that easier yes it will cost you more but in the scheme of things its nothing in comparison to dealing with computer issues. Nothing is perfect in the world of computers but Apple is a few degrees closer than most windows machines I have owned. 

The so called Apple premium is nothing if you think about it over the life of a working PC 3 years say. Compare that to the time you spend tinkering with a PC adjusting this optimising that. 

That's true. On paper my PC isn't awful for its age but despite wiping and reinstalling everything,its slow as shit. Macs do seem to last,and hold residual value well.

Sporky

ThePrettyDamned said:

getting a good screen

Now there's a rabbithole. Someone mentioned the Dell Ultrasharps - they're excellent desktop monitors and reasonably accurate, but if you are doing professional editing work I'd suggest looking at something like an Eizo, or the top-end NEC pro ones.

Mkjackary

Get something with a decent amount of ram and a decent processor.

Laptops are much more handy.

Lenovo are the best spec for the money whilst still being decent quality. But they generally don't have the best screens.
Hp and dell have good screens, have a look in a curry's and places for a laptop with a good screen then look around for deals, Christmas time is the best time for buying stuff like that, late December early Jan.

Mkjackary

Jez6345789 said:

The so called Apple premium is nothing if you think about it over the life of a working PC 3 years say. Compare that to the time you spend tinkering with a PC adjusting this optimising that. 

I think your problem is you bough a load of low/med end PCs and they weren't that good so you buy a top of the range expensive apple and low and behold it is better, ofcourse it is.

Modern PCs don't have loads of issues, you don't have to optimise this and that and adjust stuff that is all just bullshit.

If you ever have an issue with windows, chances are you can fix it.
However fixing an issue with apple products is nearly impossible half the time. for instance installing an update which completely wrecks your Mac, and then not being able to uninstall it until they fix it weeks later.

The whole stereo type that apples don't break and don't get viruses and don't have issues and PCs get all of them is just wrong now, it is an exaggeration of the past.(Trust me, I have had two PC's over my early to late teens, and not a single virus and only a couple of problems, all of them I could solve after a quick Google.

The apple premium is worth it if you need the build quality or if you need the os, or maybe if you just want the brand name (nothing wrong with that). But if anything I would say modern windows is more stable than the recent apple offerings

strumjoughlamps

Sporky said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

getting a good screen

Now there's a rabbithole. Someone mentioned the Dell Ultrasharps - they're excellent desktop monitors and reasonably accurate, but if you are doing professional editing work I'd suggest looking at something like an Eizo, or the top-end NEC pro ones.

I have not found anything better than Eizo, and it doesn't have to be mega money you can pick up and older refurb at a good price.

RaymondLin

Mkjackary said:

Jez6345789 said:

The so called Apple premium is nothing if you think about it over the life of a working PC 3 years say. Compare that to the time you spend tinkering with a PC adjusting this optimising that. 

I think your problem is you bough a load of low/med end PCs and they weren't that good so you buy a top of the range expensive apple and low and behold it is better, ofcourse it is.

Modern PCs don't have loads of issues, you don't have to optimise this and that and adjust stuff that is all just bullshit.

If you ever have an issue with windows, chances are you can fix it.
However fixing an issue with apple products is nearly impossible half the time. for instance installing an update which completely wrecks your Mac, and then not being able to uninstall it until they fix it weeks later.

The whole stereo type that apples don't break and don't get viruses and don't have issues and PCs get all of them is just wrong now, it is an exaggeration of the past.(Trust me, I have had two PC's over my early to late teens, and not a single virus and only a couple of problems, all of them I could solve after a quick Google.

The apple premium is worth it if you need the build quality or if you need the os, or maybe if you just want the brand name (nothing wrong with that). But if anything I would say modern windows is more stable than the recent apple offerings

My experience is like so many others, and I am sure Windows machine can run fast and run well but my experience is this.

1995 to 2009 I used windows, I formatted, defrag, anti-virus running in the background, this cleaning app and all that.  It just gets slowly, and you can feel it in the months from formatting.

In 2009 I bought my first iMac, in 2012 I replaced it.  The 2009 one still works but the HDD holds in back.  The 2012 iMac has a fusion drive and it is still fast as it was.  My MBP I bought in 2010 I put in a SSD and is much faster than it was, and still is fast.

I have not formatted anyone of them, I have not spent time to do any maintenance, no down time.  The only down time due to maintenance is upgrading the SSD in the MBP.

That is my experience, windows I am my own IT support, i spent time and thus money doing IT support.

With my Mac I just haven't done much if any of that.

Again, that is my experience, and unless and until that changes, I will be sticking with Apple, extra cost don't bother me.

ThePrettyDamned

Sporky said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

getting a good screen

Now there's a rabbithole. Someone mentioned the Dell Ultrasharps - they're excellent desktop monitors and reasonably accurate, but if you are doing professional editing work I'd suggest looking at something like an Eizo, or the top-end NEC pro ones.

Eizo look good, but at a more reasonable budget, BenQ do one that seems fairly well regarded - the name is catchy as hell, too. 

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-benq-sw2700-27-inch-monitor/p1586151?mkwid=swgjrxnyn_dc&pcrid=89741324339&kword=&match=&plid=&product=1586151&gclid=cjwkeajwl4q-brdtzjmsk-ugunksjacmcoy-qn8x_1lmqgongjxu0qolamofrvtm0u6_5ueclpnqkhocjvtw_wcb

ThePrettyDamned

strumjoughlamps said:

Sporky said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

getting a good screen

Now there's a rabbithole. Someone mentioned the Dell Ultrasharps - they're excellent desktop monitors and reasonably accurate, but if you are doing professional editing work I'd suggest looking at something like an Eizo, or the top-end NEC pro ones.

I have not found anything better than Eizo, and it doesn't have to be mega money you can pick up and older refurb at a good price.

Despite my BenQ comment above, I suspect this would be the route I take. The BenQ, even as a temporary solution, is probably money best invested elsewhere - and realistically, if it's been suitable for a professional who is upgrading after a few years of use, it'll be perfectly adequate for a starting professional now (or in a years time). 

ThePrettyDamned

RaymondLin said:

Mkjackary said:

Jez6345789 said:

The so called Apple premium is nothing if you think about it over the life of a working PC 3 years say. Compare that to the time you spend tinkering with a PC adjusting this optimising that. 

I think your problem is you bough a load of low/med end PCs and they weren't that good so you buy a top of the range expensive apple and low and behold it is better, ofcourse it is.

Modern PCs don't have loads of issues, you don't have to optimise this and that and adjust stuff that is all just bullshit.

If you ever have an issue with windows, chances are you can fix it.
However fixing an issue with apple products is nearly impossible half the time. for instance installing an update which completely wrecks your Mac, and then not being able to uninstall it until they fix it weeks later.

The whole stereo type that apples don't break and don't get viruses and don't have issues and PCs get all of them is just wrong now, it is an exaggeration of the past.(Trust me, I have had two PC's over my early to late teens, and not a single virus and only a couple of problems, all of them I could solve after a quick Google.

The apple premium is worth it if you need the build quality or if you need the os, or maybe if you just want the brand name (nothing wrong with that). But if anything I would say modern windows is more stable than the recent apple offerings

My experience is like so many others, and I am sure Windows machine can run fast and run well but my experience is this.

1995 to 2009 I used windows, I formatted, defrag, anti-virus running in the background, this cleaning app and all that.  It just gets slowly, and you can feel it in the months from formatting.

In 2009 I bought my first iMac, in 2012 I replaced it.  The 2009 one still works but the HDD holds in back.  The 2012 iMac has a fusion drive and it is still fast as it was.  My MBP I bought in 2010 I put in a SSD and is much faster than it was, and still is fast.

I have not formatted anyone of them, I have not spent time to do any maintenance, no down time.  The only down time due to maintenance is upgrading the SSD in the MBP.

That is my experience, windows I am my own IT support, i spent time and thus money doing IT support.

With my Mac I just haven't done much if any of that.

Again, that is my experience, and unless and until that changes, I will be sticking with Apple, extra cost don't bother me.

Your experience tallies with lots of other people online, and to some extent, myself - I don't have an Apple computer, but all of my Windows PC's have started blisteringly quick and slowly started dragging their heels, despite defrags, cache cleaning etc. 

And Windows Update... ARG don't even start me on that. 

If going the way of Apple, with their extortionate RAM prices and the crazy cost of incremental upgrades makes for a generally smoother, easier and longer lasting machine, so be it. 

I don't really know how they can justify the sheer cost of small upgrades though. 

hywelg

ThePrettyDamned said:

For myself,getting a good screen and understanding colour management should minimise this - I've read that Lightroom is good for it, no better or worse than most editors. I stand to be corrected though!

Just be aware that if LR is anything like PS, the on screen image is quite a bit too soft so will show your sharpening attempts badly. I think you will need a good photo printer so that you can run proofs and as regard to advice I would ask what your print services company would recommend. I wouldn't be tempted to go hexachrome, stick with CMYK and get a profile done for it. I used these people for a cheap and cheerful profile, not sure how well they are regarded but it did work OK for my cheap Canon.

http://www.colourphil.co.uk/profiling.shtml.

AS regards Macs lasting, I suppose its dwon to how you use it. Its tempting to use a WIndows PC for everything and keep loading it with software and then uninstalling. Can I counsel you to try and keep your work computer as clean of other stuff as possible.  The last three times I have bought a customised PC from these people.

http://www.armari.co.uk/

They are a little bit dearer than other places but they do know their stuff and do not use unreliable parts. If I have a problem I get excellent service. My last PC kept going for 8 years and this current one (Dual Xeon 2.4GHz 12GB ram) I have had for 7 years and I have no plans to change it, an SSD will give it a sufficient speed boost for the foreseeable future.

hywelg

I'll echo what been said about Eizo monitors. Buy a good one and you'll keep it for decades, even if it gets downgraded to the secondary monitor. I have a Dell 30" and a Dell 24" and I really wouldn't recommend them for colour fidelity. I need the screen real estate for drawing but thankfully colour fidelity isn't a problem for me, and I can't go 4k yet as a lot of applications I run really aren't ready for it.

This place is a specialist monitor supplier for graphic applications. Be prepared to increase your budget since this is a proper investment that you will be pleased you made 10years into the future.

http://www.nativedigital.com/