Legal help with social services - redux and clarification

TheOtherDennis

I hope it doesn't have to come to this, but can someone please point me in the direction of legal help I can get with social services, please? Basically, can any legal professionals out there give me some advice on how to choose a lawyer who can help me fight them?

Basically, what with one thing and another, and to cut a long story short, my wife suffers from a degenerative condition that has seen her progress from a normal, walking adult to someone who is to all intents and purposes  paraplegic and is only just this side of schizophrenic. Unless she takes her medicine, she has psychotic episodes that include hallucinations, and she has lost the use of her legs completely, whilst her hands suffer irregular violent shakes and jerks that can make the simple act of picking something up impossible.

After a serious event at home, she is currently in hospital. Yesterday we completed an assessment at which I was asked various questions, which I answered truthfully, saying at every turn that she can only do this, that or the other with help, that I have to spoon feed her, etc.

At the end, I was told she does not qualify for a care package because she doesn't meet the criteria. I immediately protested but was told, in other words, tough.

I have to fight this, because to me the lunatic isn't the one in the hospital bed, it's the one wearing a hospital uniform.

Can someone please tell me how to find help to get us out of this Kafkaesque madness? I know that sounds stupidly melodramatic, but I am now at my wits' end. I've spent years looking after my wife and we have now reached the point where I can literally no longer cope on my own. This isn't just me talking, even the county occupational therapist said so before the 'event' that landed my OH in hospital, and my wife wasn't as bad then as she is now.

I need help but everyone is just shrugging and pulling an embarrassed face. So can someone please tell me how to ask a solicitor if they're the right ones to help me?

Sorry.

ennspek

I'm afraid I have no legal advice to offer but just wanted to give a bit if moral support. You're both in a very difficult situation which I have some experience with. I wish you all the best.
Ultimately I realise this is of no practical value for which I apologise but I hope things improve for you both.

bingefeller

@fretmeister ;

Moe_Zambeek

I think Citizens advice may be worth a visit. Are there any support groups for people experiencing your wife's condition? There often are and they can be useful with advice too. 

Either way, good luck.

sev112

Consider writing to your MP.

my local MP has been extremely supportive, and successful in getting our local authority/ council moving - albeit on completely different issues, 

give it a ago - they are there for you.  Last time I wrote (online) they replied immediately and then immediately got on to the council .

digitalscream

I don't have any advice on legal professionals, but...have you asked exactly what the criteria are, and which items on the list she doesn't meet? Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but it strikes me that'd be the starting point because then you at least have something specific that you can object to. It'd certainly be a big help in your initial consultation with a solicitor (and may even point the way to an alternative route for contesting the decision).

EricTheWeary

Who did the assessment and refused the care package? It seems unclear if it is hospital staff or social services? In either event they will have a formal complaints policy you can pursue. You might find this on their website or you should be able to obtain a copy just by asking. If you aren't happy with the outcome of the complaints procedure you can then go to the NHS Ombudsman or Local Government Ombudsman as appropriate.
If your wife has a specific condition there may be a support group/ organisation around it where you could seek advice ( just notice Moe said this as well). 
As others have said the CAB, local councillor or MP. 
Your employer might have an employee support scheme in place that could offer advice? 

gubble

Blimey - after reading your post I would have though this was a very easy "yes this lady (and her family) needs our help"

I've zero experience with this and  can't be of any practical help but do wish you and your wife my very best wishes and hope that some sort of sense prevails by the powers that be and you get the help you need.

boogieman

EricTheWeary said:

Who did the assessment and refused the care package? It seems unclear if it is hospital staff or social services? In either event they will have a formal complaints policy you can pursue. You might find this on their website or you should be able to obtain a copy just by asking. If you aren't happy with the outcome of the complaints procedure you can then go to the NHS Ombudsman or Local Government Ombudsman as appropriate.
If your wife has a specific condition there may be a support group/ organisation around it where you could seek advice ( just notice Moe said this as well). 
As others have said the CAB, local councillor or MP. 
Your employer might have an employee support scheme in place that could offer advice? 

^This is all good advice. Social Services have had their budgets cut to the bone by central government and they're possibly encouraged to refuse care wherever possible as they can ill afford it. That doesn't help you I know and I'm saddened to hear you're in such a horrible position. There should definitely be an appeal process to follow up, that's the first thing I'd look at. 

Iamnobody

Firstly sorry to hear of your situation.

I'll make an assumption that your wife was assessed for continuing healthcare?

There is an appeals process for this which the assessor should have informed you of. Be aware though the criteria is very strict and even people who are dying don't meet the criteria.

Have you contacted social services?

They will be able to offer support but if you have over £23.5k in the bank you classed as self funding. If you are self funding it may be worth swerving social services altogether as you end up paying for their administration...

You can approach an advocate service - which are charitable organisations and offer impartial advice for free.

maidenfan

Rather than become litigious in the first instance, I would consider advocacy, your local mental health charity will be able to point you in the right direction

ourmaninthenorth

TheOtherDennis said:

Sorry.

With the greatest respect, don't be.

It appears to me that you're doing your best in the face of huge difficulties.

I'm afraid I've got nothing in the way of a productive contribution, other than to say I hope you both see some light soon.

All the best. 

fretmeister

Start here

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/appeals-and-mandatory-reconsideration

Those guys are great.

They can help out with the early work and then recommend lawyers they have personal experience of to assist further if needed.

While the common reaction is "Who can I sue?" as you will see the appeal process requires a mandatory complaint first etc etc. You don't want to delay the process or ruin your chances by not doing things in accordance with the rules.

TheOtherDennis

Ok, not sure which order to say all this in, but I'll give it a go.

First up, my sincere apologies for the rather panicky nature of my original post. As you can see from the timeline, it was very early in the morning - I'd already been awake for a couple of hours fretting about this - so I wasn't thinking as clearly as I should have done.

Second, I appreciate the advice about not jumping straight into suing anyone - I never intended it to come across like that. All I was asking was does anyone know a specialist I can get advice from on how to play it from here - who to appeal to, how to do it without causing a shitstorm or making it worse, that sort of thing. I've never been a big believer in heading for the courts, and I had no intention of even hinting at that, so again, my apologies for over-stating my intentions. I only asked about a solicitor because I thought they'd be the ones who would know most about how to go through the processes necessary before needing them to back me up.

Third, I've already been through the CAB, and where I live, they're only open on Monday mornings for three hours and you have to make an appointment, so I wouldn't be seen for a fortnight at least. It's such a shame, because when my wife first fell ill, they were absolutely golden in their help and advice, so I'd be more than happy to go through them again. It's just no longer practical, unfortunately.

Four, thanks for all the links to various fora and websites and the like, I'm sure they'll be very helpful, so ta for those.

Five, it was a hospital flunky who did the survey thing, not the social services, as you can see from the next point.

Finally, as it turns out, I was probably panicking unnecessarily. Whilst I was out this morning, I got a phone call from the occupational therapist who's been dealing with our case. She's been on holiday for the past two and a bit weeks, and was completely unaware that any of this had happened, she was simply ringing up to find out if various things she'd arranged for while she was away had taken place. So when I went through the full story (which is a good bit longer than I wrote above) she said "They said what?? Right, don't worry, Dennis, I'm on it. I'll call the hospital and get it sorted, they can't say that, it's bloody daft. Besides, there's a bunch of things they need to notify me of before they can release her, and they haven't even started doing them yet, so there's plenty of time to solve this."

So after all that, it seems I was crying wolf through sheer panic. Most embarrassing.

Again, my apologies for all this, but despite everything we've had to go through with sorting this, that and the other down the years, I'm still not used to dealing with the social, so even now I still get things wrong, which is clearly what I did here.

And thank you all for your support and advice; some of it will be parked for future issues (which, given my wife's condition, will inevitably arise) and it's good to be ready with the knowledge before it happens, and some of it will help me now should the need arise. Ideally, I won't need any of it, but thank you and, again, sorry for the howl.

boogieman

No need to apologise, you're only worried and for all the right reasons. Glad to hear things could work out better than you thought and hope it all gets sorted. Pity that so called professionals don't realise the way they speak to people can have huge ramifications. 

EricTheWeary

For us joining crohns and colitis UK was a big help. Not in terms of anyone coming around but it meant we had access to proper information and not just the wackadoodke stuff you get off the net and realising almost everything you are going through someone else is as well and may even have worked out the solution  to the problem. The only downside being that I have to be nice about Ryland ( he supports the charity as his mom has crohns). If you haven't done so already you should look into the equivalent thing for your wife's condition. With luck it will have a cooler celebrity. 

Alnico

TheOtherDennis said:

So after all that, it seems I was crying wolf through sheer panic. Most embarrassing.

Den,

When you're dealing with and caring for someone so close who is so ill, there is NO "Crying Wolf". Any doubt and you push the button for whatever it is needs to be done. In this case it was pulling your own head apart trying to find a solution but it doesn't matter what precisely the details are when you're dealing with this *Under Duress*. All that matters is that you get the thing sorted whether that be an appointment or an Ambulance.

You haven't done a thing wrong.

Have you made any time to get some support for yourself?
It's really important mate.

It's time to admit you need it too. I know how long you've been holding this up and now i'm telling you straight as a friend, you NEED some support.
Start with C.A.L.M. or someone like that but DO go and make it happen.
We're all right here man and you know i would do anything i could for you but this stuff that i'm talking about here is above our pay grade.
We're guitarists, we just *Think* we know everything !

You're a good bloke that's had a really rough time.
Somewhere there is a person who's job it is to sit YOU down and deal with how YOU feel, maybe starting off with something like........
"Well, lets see if we can do something about all that for you shall we."

Get yourself there mate and you've crested the hill you're climbing.
In the meantime don't stop climbing. You *are* doing the great job for your Wife that you think you are. Without you, she would be totally lost and that's worth the whole world to her and everyone else man.

Really, Very good luck Den.

TheOtherDennis

Thanks for all that, gents. And yes, @Alnico, I am trying to make sure I look after myself too, but thanks for the kind words and support, I do appreciate it from you all.

Sporky

I have no practical advice, but you both get my best wishes. As for staying calm and/or apologies, your reactions are completely normal and there are lots of people here who will always offer support.

TheOtherDennis

So, now that some of the dust from that has settled, it turns out I was pretty much right after all.

Basically, what happened was that the nurse did what is known as a Continuous Care Assessment. This decides whether the NHS is prepared to pay for care. And it turns out I was stiffed. He described it as simply saying I needed to answer a few questions about my wife. I then answered them on the basis that "If she takes her meds..." and "If I do it for her..." or "If there are carers present..." when I should have said "No; no; don't be daft; not at all; etc." Hence his assertion that she's not eligible for care and we'll have to pay for it through social services.

So an appeal will be going in for that. (We'll probably lose, but if I can fuck over their morning as badly as they fucked over my night, it'll be a kind of payback.)

Since then, we have been further bullied - sorry, but there's no other word for it - into accepting a care package from social services that we have to pay for, that we have not been given any information for, and that basically got the OH out of their way as fast as possible. I was given virtually no information about what to do, how to do it, and so on. Utterly basic stuff like "Well what do we do about taking my wife to the loo when the carers aren't there? Do we have to accept the times that they put her to bed?" and so on.

The social services were, imo, shocking. Last Wednesday afternoon at 4, I was told "Unfortunately, because of where you live, we can't get a care package for you. Can you try and ask a couple of firms yourself?"

The very next morning, at 11am, I was called by another social worker and asked how I was getting on!!

Then that afternoon I was told they'd got a care package for us after all and it would begin immediately. After some major ructions about this (I was supposed to be out all day on Friday and had to cancel, which included the unforgettable line from the discharge nurse "That's none of my concern," something she not surprisingly denied having said later on), my wife was delivered - there's no other word for it - yesterday afternoon.

I am apparently supposed to be paying for it. How, I have no idea, not just because I don't have anything like the money I've been told by other people (but not the social worker) I'll have to find, but because I haven't been told where or when to pay. I specifically asked about this, but was told the social worker couldn't answer the phone and passed on the message that "It's not me who decides, that's down to the accounts department." I naturally replied "Well is it really beyond the scope of his job description to call his accounts department and ask them? The care providers would not have agreed to do the job without having been given a budget or work order, so someone must know what it is. Is it that hard to find out?" Apparently it is.

Anyway, now the rest of our lives begins.

I fully understand the pressure the hospital is under. Anyone with an IQ in double figures can see that within minutes of arriving on a ward, any ward. But patients are still human beings, not slabs of meat, with actual breathing, feeling relatives who are hugely affected by what's happened to their loved ones.

Is it really too much to ask that we be treated with some sort of respect and that we be told what's needed? I am now caring for a woman who, and there's no point in mincing my words about this, will literally starve to death in a puddle of piss and a cloud of delusions if she isn't cared for. Surely there's more to giving her some quality of life than just "Have a try and see how it goes"? Surely they can either answer my questions or even better, tell me first what I might encounter! At every stage I had to prise out with a metaphorical crowbar what little info they provided. And even then they resisted. I'm not even talking about tough stuff, just simple things like how to use a bed pan in the middle of the night, ffs.

Sorry, I'm howling at the moon again.

I'll shut up now.

All I can really do now is quote John McCain in Die Hard With A Vengeance:

"Does anybody have any aspirin? Cos I have a bad fucking headache."

Alnico

Wow.

I'm lost for words. 
Part of my Family work in healthcare, i will ask them if there's anything they can suggest, you never know.

Brave.
That's all i can find man.