The golden age of (contemporary) music is over - and that's OK.

Cirrus

guitarfishbay said:

We've also seen the rise of high earner EDM acts in recent years, these guys are bigger rock stars than lead singers of rock bands these days - I can't even name a front person from the past 5 years who is as much of a household name as anyone on these kind of lists.  http://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomalleygreenburg/2015/08/24/the-worlds-highest-paid-djs-electronic-cash-kings-2015/#7c97a2193bc9

I think these EDM acts doing so well kinda prove the point, in that EDM music is very complex and difficult to produce well, and has artistic merit... but in terms of the barriers for entry, they're very, VERY low - all you need is a laptop and a couple of cracked VST plugs and you're away, so you can be honing your skills from the moment your parents buy you your first computer. And the nature of EDM sounds are such that you don't need a really great acoustic space to mix it in if you happen to only have a living room or bedroom on offer. Sure, once you have money, hire a studio and do a better job. But it's not gonna make or break you the same way that a dodgy acoustic drum recording will ruin an unsigned grunge band's debut, for example.

And where do they make their money? I bet it's not in youtube and spotify plays.

Cirrus

guitarfishbay said:

The internet did have a big effect on the value of music.  There was a Noel Gallagher interview posted up a while ago where he highlighted people would rather pay for a take-out coffee than buy an album that could change their life in some way.

For people who are, say, 25 and under, it's all they've known - free music as background noise rather than social force. How can it be worth anything intrinsically to them?

Fretwired

Cirrus said:

Fretwired said:

The internet allows artists to record and distribute their own music - I'd say we're having a golden age.

See, I think that's a nice idea but in practice it's not that rosy.

Edit: Sorry, I wrote this before I read your last post @Fretwired, I feel like Judas now. 

@Cirrus no need to feel like Judas .. :-)

I'm not talking about guys in their bedroom. For example, I listen to a lot of Nordic jazz (some of it is more rock than jazz) with artists like Jakob Bro, Eivind Aarset, Nils Frahm, Arve Henriksen .. and many others. They are professional musicians who record in proper studios, release CDs and connect to their audience via social media and the internet. I'd have never heard of any of them without the internet. They also tour and I've seem some of them gigging in London.  For them the internet is liberating as there's no big record label giving them grief. Social media allows them to talk to their fans and crowd funding can help fund recording an album. They can also release videos on YouTube to attract more fans for their music. They don't earn millions if Euros a year but they make decent money from CDs, downloads and gigs.

guitarfishbay

Cirrus said:
And the nature of EDM sounds are such that you don't need a really great acoustic space to mix it in if you happen to only have a living room or bedroom on offer. Sure, once you have money, hire a studio and do a better job. But it's not gonna make or break you the same way that a dodgy acoustic drum recording will ruin an unsigned grunge band's debut, for example.

Not strictly true - if they're actually going to play out on club systems it still has to be mixed well, with the low end being critical (though its probably easier to mix synth bass/kick on headphones than sort out a rock mix on headphones).  There are a lot of VSTs that sound great straight away though, there's definitely a skill set difference vs recording acoustic instruments. 

Cirrus said:

And where do they make their money? I bet it's not in youtube and spotify plays.

Playing in clubs - again a cultural difference.  They can do a residency and people keep coming to that club.  

guitarfishbay

Cirrus said:

guitarfishbay said:

The internet did have a big effect on the value of music.  There was a Noel Gallagher interview posted up a while ago where he highlighted people would rather pay for a take-out coffee than buy an album that could change their life in some way.

For people who are, say, 25 and under, it's all they've known - free music as background noise rather than social force. How can it be worth anything intrinsically to them?

One of the barbers at the place I go to is about that age, covered in tattoos.  He's big on music and keeps up to date with latest releases, loads of new stuff etc... he's freely admitted he couldn't afford his tatts if he bought every album he liked.

It is a choice... if people can get something they like for free, and get away with it, they'll do it.  I know plenty of people into their films that don't pay for them - even a guy with a dedicated film room, nice sound system etc.

holnrew

Is it OAP discount day on the fretboard?

Cirrus

guitarfishbay said:

Cirrus said:
And the nature of EDM sounds are such that you don't need a really great acoustic space to mix it in if you happen to only have a living room or bedroom on offer. Sure, once you have money, hire a studio and do a better job. But it's not gonna make or break you the same way that a dodgy acoustic drum recording will ruin an unsigned grunge band's debut, for example.

Not strictly true - if they're actually going to play out on club systems it still has to be mixed well, with the low end being critical (though its probably easier to mix synth bass/kick on headphones than sort out a rock mix on headphones).  There are a lot of VSTs that sound great straight away though, there's definitely a skill set difference vs recording acoustic instruments. 

A thought just occurred re; EDM low end - over on the Reddit threads about this stuff, EDM producers are ALWAYS asking how to side chain x off y - seems like mixing 101 to them is to side chain the bass off the kick etc to duck it totally out the way. I wonder if that's a safer way of mixing low end than getting heavy with eq for people who maybe don't have the setup to properly judge eq settings down there - maybe if they're using soft synths with pre-packaged sounds, it's basically presumed to be pre-baked until proven otherwise?

Sporky

holnrew said:

Is it OAP discount day on the fretboard?

Every day on the FB is OAP day, you ageist scumbag.

But some of us OAPs are still down with the kids and don't think music ended in the 70s.

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Is Scooter ever going to be fondly remembered? 

I like Scooter.

I have lost all respect for you, and will duly un-wisdom anything I have ever wisdommed you for. 

Shit, that's about 11,000 posts I think... 

I have no fond memories of scooter. It was played when I was in gym class in primary school. Shudder. 

ICBM

ThePrettyDamned said:

I have lost all respect for you, and will duly un-wisdom anything I have ever wisdommed you for. 

Shit, that's about 11,000 posts I think... 

I have no fond memories of scooter. It was played when I was in gym class in primary school. Shudder. 

To be honest I'm not really a fan, I've just got about ten tracks which are on various dance compilations or Nows. Three of them are versions of 'The Logical Song', which gets a bit wearing after a while. Weekend! and Jumping All Over The World are classics though .

I like some really shit music though, so don't be too surprised .

guitarfishbay

Cirrus said:

A thought just occurred re; EDM low end - over on the Reddit threads about this stuff, EDM producers are ALWAYS asking how to side chain x off y - seems like mixing 101 to them is to side chain the bass off the kick etc to duck it totally out the way. I wonder if that's a safer way of mixing low end than getting heavy with eq for people who maybe don't have the setup to properly judge eq settings down there - maybe if they're using soft synths with pre-packaged sounds, it's basically presumed to be pre-baked until proven otherwise?

Well it depends on genre, some of the side chaining is specifically to pump for effect and sometimes it is needed because the kick and bass occupy the same space stylistically and cutting an EQ notch like you might do on a rock track might take too much energy away from the bass when the kick isn't playing, just from how the songs can be constructed.  For example, when the kick sustain has died away but the sustain on the bass still lasts a little longer.