Nissan suspends further investment in UK car manufacturing

mellowsun

Something to be concerned about or simply further pressure for soft Brexit (i.e. Brexit in name only, status quo)?

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-paris-motor-show/nissan-wont-further-invest-sunderland-plant-without-brexit

EricTheWeary

I know someone at Toyota and straight after the brexit vote word went round that the future of the plant was at risk. These things are the obvious result. 

Fretwired

Misleading - Nissan simply wants compensation if tariffs are imposed. The UK government has unofficially said there would be a cut in corporation tax to make the UK more attractive to foreign investors. And remember both Nissan and Toyota sell cars in the UK so both plants are safe. If European cars become more expensive they have an opportunity to sell more and if the UK.

mellowsun

Fretwired said:

Misleading - Nissan simply wants compensation if tariffs are imposed. 

Indeed, however until that time they are suspending further investment.

How many other companies will we have to compensate? How much will this compensation cost? Is this the Brexit dividend we were expecting?

Fretwired

mellowsun said:

Fretwired said:

Misleading - Nissan simply wants compensation if tariffs are imposed. 

Indeed, however until that time they are suspending further investment.

How many other companies will we have to compensate? How much will this compensation cost? Is this the Brexit dividend we were expecting?

I'm not getting into another Brexit debate - I could have a title 'Greedy Japanese company tries it on'  .. let them try and setup in Europe. They will find it very hard as the French, German and Italian car companies will block them.

This debate is pointless. Newspaper clickbait. A non-story.

The fall in the pound and a cut in corporation tax which is already planned with offset any WTO tariffs.

holnrew

Most of the cars made in the Sunderland plant are exported to the EU, so even if they stay to manufacture for the UK market there would be massive lay offs. And they only manufacture a few models, retooling for the whole range would be too expensive. 

But nothing bad will happen, and even if it does we'll have our sovereignty

Fretwired

Nissan /Renault own shares in each other. They are in partnership  - Renault is has been bidding to build Nissan's in France and has been given some state aid. This happened well before Brexit.

The fall in the pound will make Nissan cars attractive. This came from a BBC Newsnight report that asked some 'what if' questions. Before Brexit Renault looked into closing Sunderland and moving production to France.

Carlos Ghosn, chief executive of Renualt-Nissan, last week told the BBC that he is "reasonably optimistic" the UK will remain an important partner for Europe, once trade negotiations are completed.

This is all speculation.

Fretwired

Before Brexit. French politics at play.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/02/nissan-warns-france-over-interference-with-renault-alliance

Limehouse_Blues

Fretwired said:

mellowsun said:

Fretwired said:

Misleading - Nissan simply wants compensation if tariffs are imposed. 

Indeed, however until that time they are suspending further investment.

How many other companies will we have to compensate? How much will this compensation cost? Is this the Brexit dividend we were expecting?

I'm not getting into another Brexit debate - I could have a title 'Greedy Japanese company tries it on'  .. let them try and setup in Europe. They will find it very hard as the French, German and Italian car companies will block them.

Nissan and Renault have substantial cross share holdings in one another. Renault owns about 40% of the voting shares in Nissan. I don't think Nissan will encounter too many difficulties ploughing new investment into its plants elsewhere in the EU (France, Romania). Similarly, Toyota already has plant all over the EU and its European R&D HQ is in Belgium.

Fretwired

Limehouse_Blues said:

Fretwired said:

mellowsun said:

Fretwired said:

Misleading - Nissan simply wants compensation if tariffs are imposed. 

Indeed, however until that time they are suspending further investment.

How many other companies will we have to compensate? How much will this compensation cost? Is this the Brexit dividend we were expecting?

I'm not getting into another Brexit debate - I could have a title 'Greedy Japanese company tries it on'  .. let them try and setup in Europe. They will find it very hard as the French, German and Italian car companies will block them.

Nissan and Renault have substantial cross share holdings in one another. Renault owns about 40% of the voting shares in Nissan. I don't think Nissan will encounter too many difficulties ploughing new investment into its plants elsewhere in the EU (France, Romania). Similarly, Toyota already has plant all over the EU and its European R&D HQ is in Belgium.

The plan would be for Renault to build the cars. Renault has already put in a bid (as per their agreements) to take production away from Sunderland. A decision will be made by 2020 and was started before Brexit. The French government has increased its stake in Renault and will be pushing hard to get some of the work. See above.

mellowsun

Fretwired said:

 Newspaper clickbait. A non-story.

To be fair, your response to every potential negative aspect to Brexit is that it is a non-story or a non-issue. Also this particular story and the fallout has been reported all over the press, not just in Autocar

Fretwired

mellowsun said:

Fretwired said:

 Newspaper clickbait. A non-story.

To be fair, your response to every potential negative aspect to Brexit is that it is a non-story or a non-issue. Also this particular story and the fallout has been reported all over the press, not just in Autocar

It's a non-story as it is something that might happen. I'm happy to be corrected but I didn't see any posts on here about the Sunderland plant when it was announced over 18 months ago that it will have to bid for future work and could close if it didn't win.

The Franco-Japanese group makes its plants bid against each other to win significant new production contracts, with Sunderland facing stiff competition from Renault plants in continental Europe. Bidding is expected towards the end of next year or in early 2018 for a new of the Qashqai, Nissan's popular "crossover" vehicle currently made in Sunderland. The new model would be slated for launch in 2020. Car plants in France and Spain are expected to bid with the latter having advantages in labour costs and the former having support from the French government. So we could remain in the EU and Sunderland could close.

Nissan made a major investment in Sunderland last year to make an updated version of the Qashqai which goes on sale soon. So no further investment will be made until the bid process is complete.

But let's not ruin a chance to bash the Brexit vote before we see what an exit deal might look like. If we get a naff deal or the EU comes back and says we don't want you to leave we'll address some of your concerns then I'll happily change my tune.

CHRISB50

mellowsun said:

Fretwired said:

 Newspaper clickbait. A non-story.

To be fair, your response to every potential negative aspect to Brexit is that it is a non-story or a non-issue. 

Where as yours is to post it on here, starting another thread. 

thecolourbox

Fretwired said:

The fall in the pound will make Nissan cars attractive.

Never heard a Nissan described as attractive before

RandallFlagg

Who wants a Nissan anyway? POS

Bygone_Tones

RandallFlagg said:

Who wants a Nissan anyway? POS

Usually people who look like this:

mellowsun

CHRISB50 said:

Where as yours is to post it on here, starting another thread. 

Ooh, touché.

OK, I resolve not to post another Brexit thread in Off Topic.

CHRISB50

Do as you like matey. Just an observation. 

TheBigDipper

Fretwired said:

<snip>
The fall in the pound will make Nissan cars attractive. This came from a BBC Newsnight report that asked some 'what if' questions. Before Brexit Renault looked into closing Sunderland and moving production to France.
<snip>

True, but it will also make the imported raw materials used to make these cars more expensive to produce. They may (or may not, who knows?) have import tariffs slapped on them by the EU - making them more expensive again.

Truth is, we've got lots of questions that will remain unanswered for some time to come - any speculation is just a waste of time on all sides until we have a clearer idea of our situation. If Nissan closes Sunderland down, then they'll close it. Brexit may or may not have been a factor. Ditto for Renaults positioning and lobbying. Corporations don't have loyalty to anyone but themselves. 

Fretwired

TheBigDipper said:

Truth is, we've got lots of questions that will remain unanswered for some time to come - any speculation is just a waste of time on all sides until we have a clearer idea of our situation. If Nissan closes Sunderland down, then they'll close it. Brexit may or may not have been a factor. Ditto for Renaults positioning and lobbying. Corporations don't have loyalty to anyone but themselves. 

Have a wis .. that's my view. Speculation is a waste of time. Let's reconvene when May has a deal and if it's a bad one then maybe we should have a referendum.

Heartfeltdawn

thecolourbox said:

Never heard a Nissan described as attractive before

Nissan S30.