Amber Rudd and lists of foreigners

quarky

There is a lot in the press today, and the papers tomorrow about this, but has anyone found a quote form her where she actually asks for a companies to produce a list of foreign workers? There is nothing in her speech from yesterday that I can find.
The BBC talks about having to "disclose what percentage", but goes on to quote people talking about ""Submitting a list of colleagues who are not British-born."

The closest I can find to a politician talking about listing foreigners is Andy Burham saying:
"The idea of British companies producing lists of foreign workers runs counter to everything that this country has ever stood for"

So is it just the usual suspects getting sucked in by Labour spin, or did Rudd actually say that companies should list foreign workers? Obviously I think it is the former not the latter, but happy to stand corrected..

Paul_C

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37561035

quarky

Paul_C said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37561035

Thanks. Where though?

That article says:
"Briefing notes after her speech also suggested they could be required to "be clear about the proportion of their workforce which is international", a practice which the Home Office says is standard in the US."

And neither audio clip says there should be a list of foreign workers.

Or am I blind/deaf?

There is actually a quote about lists on foreign workers, but Labour again:
And Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said "drawing up lists of foreign workers won't stop unscrupulous employers undercutting wages in Britain".

Heartfeltdawn

It's there in the audio clip from about 1.30 onwards. Presenter mentions list, she says it's one of the things they'll look at in the review. The briefing sent out afterwards seems to be where the contentious bits are. Quoting from the Indie:

"In a briefing sent afterwards, it was made clear that other measures to be considered would be, “whether employers should have to set out the steps they have taken to foster a pool of local candidates, set out the impact on the local labour force of their foreign recruitment and be clear about the proportion of their workforce which is international, as is the case in the US.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/immigration-foreign-workers-business-leaders-tory-crackdown-amber-rudd-a7345271.html

Haven't found a full copy of that briefing paper as yet sadly

Fretwired

Amber Rudderless .. she made the comments on R4's Today programme this morning as something they were considering. U-turned hours later. Won't happen as it's in breach of UK (not EU) discrimination laws.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

Amber Rudderless .. she made the comments on R4's Today programme this morning as something they were considering. U-turned hours later. Won't happen as it's in breach of UK (not EU) discrimination laws.

Yes. It actually reminded me of all that talk in a previous Budget about massive cuts to policing that never happened. You get the scare stories and then a Conservative announcement makes them seem reasonable because they don't do the mean ol' shit. 

Fretwired

The Tories are a shambles .. Rudderless and Mayhem area total joke and Andrea Deadweight is brainless .. makes Corbyn look like a safe pair of hands.

Sporky

Fretwired said:

Won't happen as it's in breach of UK (not EU) discrimination laws.

Though as Leave kept pointing out, we'll make our own laws and be done with all this awful human rights stuff - we can get back to the grand old days of indentured serfdom.

fields5069

My wife is disgusted at this. She wonders if she will need to wear some sort of star badge in the near future.

quarky

Sporky, if you are going to bring this back to the referendum, don't forget, she was a remain supporter.

As I said though, even in this audio clips, she doesn't mention a list of foreign workers. I don't see a lot of point in asking companies for information regarding proportion of foreign workers either, but maybe I am being (too?) pedantic, but to me there is a huge different between that, and what is being implied by Labour, and in the media.

fields5069 said:

My wife is disgusted at this. She wonders if she will need to wear some sort of star badge in the near future.

Understandable. Out of interest, is she disgusted at companies having to release a list of their foreign workers, or at being asked what proportion of workers are foreign?

Sporky

quarky said:

Sporky, if you are going to bring this back to the referendum, don't forget, she was a remain supporter.

Forget? I never knew or cared.

fields5069

quarky said:

Sporky, if you are going to bring this back to the referendum, don't forget, she was a remain supporter.

As I said though, even in this audio clips, she doesn't mention a list of foreign workers. I don't see a lot of point in asking companies for information regarding proportion of foreign workers either, but maybe I am being (too?) pedantic, but to me there is a huge different between that, and what is being implied by Labour, and in the media.

fields5069 said:

My wife is disgusted at this. She wonders if she will need to wear some sort of star badge in the near future.

Understandable. Out of interest, is she disgusted at companies having to release a list of their foreign workers, or at being asked what proportion of workers are foreign?

I think both are questionable, though perhaps already happen to firms employing people from outside the EEA (?), but it's the listing which alarms her the most, although I understand this may not actually be a true reflection on what was said and written.

ICBM

quarky said:

Sporky, if you are going to bring this back to the referendum, don't forget, she was a remain supporter.

So was May, at least publicly.

But I've always thought she was opposed to the EU on legal and human rights issues rather than trade and economic ones. When she was Home Secretary she explicitly wanted to leave the EHCR even if we had stayed in the EU, although she appears to have changed that stance now.

Or in fact, she was almost silent - Cameron is actually right that she appeared to only barely support Remain. In fact the only thing I can remember her saying in the whole campaign was to refute the Leave claim that a million Turks could have access to the UK under EU rules.

Being Home Secretary does seem to bring out the worst in a lot of politicians. Even Alan Johnson turned nasty.

quarky

ICBM said:
Being Home Secretary does seem to bring out the worst in a lot of politicians. Even Alan Johnson turned nasty.

It does seem to be a poisoned chalice.

domforr

It's really distressing were we are politically in the UK at the moment. When your PM's speech is being praised by Marine Le Pen and Farage, something has gone very amiss. I get the feeling that May cut some kind of deal with the Daily Mail in return for their support in the Tory leadership battle. Nasty and divisive.

BigMonka

Don't companies already have to provide the government (not sure which bit, HMRC?) with evidence that all employees have a right to work in the UK, whether that be copies of passports, visas etc - so surely these lists already exist somewhere? And I don't think that anyone is suggesting publishing them in the public domain are they?

quarky

Yes. I think for some though, proving employees have a right to work is one thing, providing details on numbers of foreign workers is another. One is a legal requirement, and the other one shouldn't really matter as long as those people are here legally.

Correct though, it doesn't seem like anyone besides Labour is talking about a list of workers being collected, never mind being published.

Heartfeltdawn

quarky said:

Correct though, it doesn't seem like anyone besides Labour is talking about a list of workers being collected, never mind being published.

I suggest checking some different media. 
 
The Independent clearly states that a briefing was sent out afterwards. 

"In a briefing sent afterwards, it was made clear that other measures to be considered would be, “whether employers should have to set out the steps they have taken to foster a pool of local candidates, set out the impact on the local labour force of their foreign recruitment and be clear about the proportion of their workforce which is international, as is the case in the US.”

Sounds like a list to me. Guido Fawkes is also reporting the list element so it's not only Labour.

http://order-order.com/2016/10/06/rudd-cant-say-many-eu-citizens-work-home-office/

The Sun report pissed Nick Boles off who denied some of the language used, especially the 'flush out' comment that she made on the Today programme. 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1914685/amber-rudd-defends-plans-to-make-businesses-reveal-numbers-of-foreign-workers-saying-dont-call-me-racist/


Click on the Twitter link to see the responses. It's certainly not dominated by hand-wringing lefties. 

https://twitter.com/NickBolesMP/status/783576869870403585

So there is some distortion going on but the main cut and thrust is coming from some right-leaning heavy hitters. Witness The Times. 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct_U6QRXgAE-WFY.jpg:large

Heartfeltdawn

It would however be fucking amusing to see News UK listing its foreign workers  

quarky

Heartfeltdawn said:

In a briefing sent afterwards, it was made clear that other measures to be considered would be, “whether employers should have to set out the steps they have taken to foster a pool of local candidates, set out the impact on the local labour force of their foreign recruitment and be clear about the proportion of their workforce which is international, as is the case in the US

I guess we read that different ways. I see "be clear about the proportion of their workforce which is international"

Others see "supply a list of foreign workers." But no one can source where it comes from. Even the Times article talks about "how many".

Heartfeltdawn

I agree. From what I see, there's going to be a consultative exercise and this is one proposal that will be discussed. A straight list of names.. I don't kow. Until that briefing comes out, things are up in the air. 

My stance is that this is definitely not being whipped up by Labour alone. It palpably isn't. A lot of the UKIP crew are up about this, saying it's way beyond anything they wanted. It's pretty fucking surreal really when you have UKIP saying that this would be too tough on foreigners. 

The Mail put up the Press Association article on this with some quotes from the Today Programme interview. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3822484/Immigration-curbs-deter-scientists--Astronomer-Royal.html

""This is one of the things we're going to look at in the review.

"It's not something we're definitely going to do, it's one of the tools we're going to use as a review to see if we can use it as a way of nudging people to do better behaviour."

She added: "I fear there may be some (businesses) who aren't quite as constructive, and they're the ones we want to flush out here."

"Do better behaviour"? No wonder she's not Education Secretary. The language employed does make it sound like quite a threat to businesses, not a sensible move when you position yourself as the champion party of business.