Sturgeon - true voice of the Scots?

Moe_Zambeek

That's a remarkably jumbled thought process from Ms. Black. Not to mention rather hyperbolic as well as invoking Godwin's law.

Then the allegations of fascism with schools recording nationality, and this from the party of the 'named individual' policy, deemed contrary to human rights legislation and yet still party policy. 

Fretwired

Jimbro66 said:

Nicola Sturgeon is, as ever, having plenty to say - this time at the SNP conference. I'm curious, does she represent the majority views of the ordinary folk of Scotland or is some/much of what she says political posturing? Do the Scots widely support her seeming preoccupation with independence or do they perhaps feel she could be concentrating more on other important day-to-day issues?

As someone living about as far south of the border as it's possible to go I'd just like to have some understanding of what our Scottish friends feel.

I have a lot of Scots relatives - I would say Sturgeon winds them up and is not universally popular but most support the SNP as its not allied to a English-based Westminster party like the Tories or Labour and so has Scotland's interests at heart. I think all leaders have a shelf life. Salmond was smart enough to spot this and now leads the SNP at Westminster .. Thatcher wasn't and found herself getting the boot. Something Sturgeon should bear in mind.

Moe_Zambeek

Salmond isn't the leader at Westminster, that's would be Angus Robertson.

Fretwired

Moe_Zambeek said:

Salmond isn't the leader at Westminster, that's would be Angus Robertson.

You are correct .. my mistake.

earwighoney

Pfft. 

Rab C Nesbitt is the true voice of Scotland.  

Fretwired

Ruth Davidson is an interesting character. Under her leadership the Tories are doing better in Scotland and she openly attacks the likes of Boris Johnson. She has said that the Scottish Tories could break away and form a new party to take on the SNP. She could give Sturgeon a run for her money.

AliGorie

got sent this - apparently broadcast in Scotland prime time news, it's the bbc with it's UJ pants down
note Swinney wares his wedding ring on the normal finger - which means the b&W image has been doctored from a lh wave to a rh Nazi gesture - the unnaturally narrow shadow under his nose - it's no wonder the Scots want to leave us to self destruct.
Oh and they even kept the yellow snp banner in a b&w picture

Fretwired

ewal said:

I like Nicola Sturgeon and I think she stands up well when compared to the shower of shit currently running the UK. Although my fellow Thistle supporter Mhairi Black impresses me even more - her views on the the whole independence subject and nationalist label are very closely aligned to mine:

" I believe in independence purely for practical reasons rather than emotional ones. I want Scotland to have total control and power over its own policies, government and direction of travel. I believe the SNP is the best vehicle to achieving that goal, however, after independence, everyone’s vote is up for grabs (including my own), and that can only be considered a healthy thing.

OK. So why does the SNP want to stay in the EU? You'd have to take the Euro, the Scottish budget would have to be approved by Brussels and Scotland would be a net contributor. Scotland would also be drawn into closer fiscal and political union and as a very small country EU wise would have no say in Policy.

This is a serious question.

Moe_Zambeek

AliGorie said:

got sent this - apparently broadcast in Scotland prime time news, it's the bbc with it's UJ pants down
note Swinney wares his wedding ring on the normal finger - which means the b&W image has been doctored from a lh wave to a rh Nazi gesture - the unnaturally narrow shadow under his nose - it's no wonder the Scots want to leave us to self destruct.
Oh and they even kept the yellow snp banner in a b&w picture

Yes. The BBC up here routinely doctors images of SNP ministers to look like Hitler then broadcasts them in prime time. 

I believe they also had a hand in those fake moon landing images too.

ewal

Fretwired said:

ewal said:

I like Nicola Sturgeon and I think she stands up well when compared to the shower of shit currently running the UK. Although my fellow Thistle supporter Mhairi Black impresses me even more - her views on the the whole independence subject and nationalist label are very closely aligned to mine:

" I believe in independence purely for practical reasons rather than emotional ones. I want Scotland to have total control and power over its own policies, government and direction of travel. I believe the SNP is the best vehicle to achieving that goal, however, after independence, everyone’s vote is up for grabs (including my own), and that can only be considered a healthy thing.

OK. So why does the SNP want to stay in the EU? You'd have to take the Euro, the Scottish budget would have to be approved by Brussels and Scotland would be a net contributor. Scotland would also be drawn into closer fiscal and political union and as a very small country EU wise would have no say in Policy.

This is a serious question.

Obviously for the same reasons those that voted Remain in the recent EU referendum - ERDF, trade agreements, freedom of movement, etc, etc. We were after all told by the likes of Ruth Davidson that the only way to guarantee continued EU membership was to vote No in Indyref... Bet you she wishes she hadn't banged on about this now....

Don't want to get involved in a debate about better/ worse off in or out of UK and/or EU. As far as I'm concerned it looks like we will either be worse off as part of UK out of the EU, or worse off as a small country out of UK but in EU. I prefer the second option. However, I really appreciate that I'm in a minority on here and I'm VERY unlikely to convince anyone to change their mind... So think I'll shut up and get on with soldering my Pedal Parts kit - just managed to solder a switch to the wrong side of the board:-)

AliGorie

nice try moe -
telegraph image - wedding ring on left/h 'ring' finger, just google it for u'self

and the Express -

I think what u mean to say (but are to polite to say) is they're so dumb how could they successfully run a country when  the keep putting their wedding rings on different fingers / hands - or u might be suggesting there's reason for this behavior -  very naughty.

don't worry - they wont get away from us.

Myranda

I may not want to say goodbye to Scotland - I think we're stronger as a combined nation, I might even think that (with the exception of the current state of the GBP) Scotland is financially better off in the UK, but I can definitely see the case for a second referendum

The vote to stay in the UK was to stay in a union with a country that was in the EU, had a strong economy... since then we voted to leave the EU and in doing so have (at least in the short term) fucked the economy...It was even a big sticking point that Scotland would take years to get into the EU on their own

So why would it not be fair to check that scotland is still happy to stay in the union now its a different place to the one they voted to stay in

ToneControl

ewal said:

Don't want to get involved in a debate about better/ worse off in or out of UK and/or EU. As far as I'm concerned it looks like we will either be worse off as part of UK out of the EU, or worse off as a small country out of UK but in EU. I prefer the second option. However, I really appreciate that I'm in a minority on here and I'm VERY unlikely to convince anyone to change their mind... So think I'll shut up and get on with soldering my Pedal Parts kit - just managed to solder a switch to the wrong side of the board:-)

I hadn't thought much about  it until seeing  Andrew Neil today:
isn't it true that the economic  issues  the UK faces  leaving the EU are magnified many times for an Independent Scotland -  

2/3 of all Scottish exports go to RUK
https://fullfact.org/economy/does-scotland-export-twice-much-england-it-does-rest-world/

So an independent Scotland would have no subsidy from RUK, a massive deficit, and would  expect a tariff to be charged on 2/3 of all its exports, thus  harming exports

3/4  of all Scottish imports come from RUK,  and the EU would compel them to charge a tariff on all those items

All military ship-building orders would be cancelled
RUK might keep the current military sites as sovereign overseas bases, like in Cyprus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akrotiri_and_Dhekelia
or pull the plug on all those jobs

Not looking rosy with no oil money is  it?
I'm assuming RBS would have to  move to the RUK

To add insult to injury, most of the shale oil and gas is  in England 

AliGorie

don't worry TC - we bought 'em - we own 'em.
They're not going anywhere, we'll just have to foot the bill,
why would we do that ?.

Heartfeltdawn

AliGorie said:

got sent this - apparently broadcast in Scotland prime time news, it's the bbc with it's UJ pants down
note Swinney wares his wedding ring on the normal finger - which means the b&W image has been doctored from a lh wave to a rh Nazi gesture - the unnaturally narrow shadow under his nose - it's no wonder the Scots want to leave us to self destruct.
Oh and they even kept the yellow snp banner in a b&w picture

Tinfoil sales must be strong in your area. 

Nitefly

Can we please do without this "RUK" bollocks?  It will still be the United Kingdom with or without Scotland.

If we must have a soundbyte-word, let's have Future UK - FUK FTW!  

AliGorie

earwighoney said:

Pfft. 

Rab C Nesbitt is the true voice of Scotland.  

they go big on Limmy

"Tinfoil sales must be strong in your area. "

never touch the stuff

Fretwired

Nitefly said:

Can we please do without this "RUK" bollocks?  It will still be the United Kingdom with or without Scotland.

If we must have a soundbyte-word, let's have Future UK - FUK FTW!  

Not sure that's strictly true. It wouldn't exactly be united.

Fretwired

I see the phantom loller is about ..

siremoon

ToneControl said:

ewal said:

Don't want to get involved in a debate about better/ worse off in or out of UK and/or EU. As far as I'm concerned it looks like we will either be worse off as part of UK out of the EU, or worse off as a small country out of UK but in EU. I prefer the second option. However, I really appreciate that I'm in a minority on here and I'm VERY unlikely to convince anyone to change their mind... So think I'll shut up and get on with soldering my Pedal Parts kit - just managed to solder a switch to the wrong side of the board:-)

I hadn't thought much about  it until seeing  Andrew Neil today:
isn't it true that the economic  issues  the UK faces  leaving the EU are magnified many times for an Independent Scotland -  

2/3 of all Scottish exports go to RUK
https://fullfact.org/economy/does-scotland-export-twice-much-england-it-does-rest-world/

So an independent Scotland would have no subsidy from RUK, a massive deficit, and would  expect a tariff to be charged on 2/3 of all its exports, thus  harming exports

3/4  of all Scottish imports come from RUK,  and the EU would compel them to charge a tariff on all those items

All military ship-building orders would be cancelled
RUK might keep the current military sites as sovereign overseas bases, like in Cyprus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akrotiri_and_Dhekelia
or pull the plug on all those jobs

Not looking rosy with no oil money is  it?
I'm assuming RBS would have to  move to the RUK

To add insult to injury, most of the shale oil and gas is  in England 

.. and if (as we are led to believe) the £ will stay low against the Euro then imports to the UK from an independent Euro adopting Scotland will be potentially more expensive anyway before you take into account any tariffs.

My working assumption is that the UK retail banks and insurers with Scottish HQ would be obliged to set up new HQ in England, Wales or NI.  What that means for head count in their current Scottish HQ is a matter of speculation but I can't see it going up.