Live situation, using the PA

shaunm

I played a gig last night, a bloody loud one and I've come to the conclusion I will forever mic up through the PA going forward.

My amp sounded amazing at that volume but the mix just wasn't there, it was lost in the stage volume (the bass was DI'd the drums mic'd up with overheads and the vocals of course all ran through the PA). 

My question is what mic's are you using, do you carry your own and does anyone have one for sale?

timmysoft

I use the Palmer Junction, it's been a lot more consistent than mics for me. If I do go the mic route I only use the Sennheiser E609.

John_P

You can get away with using almost any cheap dynamic on a guitar as the frequency is quite limited but I agree with timmysoft and use the sennheiser 609 or 906  on my cabs as I can reduce space and put them flat.   Failing that an sm57 is standard.   

thomasross20

I think it's the way to go, as long as you have a good monitor.

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

I think it's the way to go, as long as you have a good monitor.

You do, it's called the amp .

Use the amp to generate the tone and volume you need for the mix on stage, do the rest with the PA.

I like the SM57. It just works.

p90fool

Superlux do a good replica of the Sennheiser for about 40 quid, it really is excellent. 

Danny1969

Sound wise almost any dynamic will do, I use all kinds of mic's like 57's, fake 57's, Senn E906's etc. Like a lot of people I prefer the Senn cos it picks up less spill from the drums ... that's important cos at some venues my amp is literally 30cm away from the drum kit

If you have more than one speaker like a 2 x 12 then always mic the one furthest from the drum kit. 
Angling a  mic like a 57 away from the drums, with the 906 or 609 though it's not necessary. 

viz

Sennheiser 906 - it's so faithful.

shaunm

Cheers for the suggestions guys. Last nights gig was frustrating in as much as the sound set up. I was very happy with my guitar tone but because the bass, drums and Vox were through the PA and the guitars weren't it meant that the volume from the gig was huge yet the clarity was not there. 

I will have a look at those suggestions as I don't want to be playing any other gigs without the guitar going through the PA.

mike257

SM57 or Beta 57 are solid, the E609 or E906 work a treat, I've used my AKG D5 and been more than happy. Budget contender is the Prodipe TT1 Pro which punches well above its weight for a cheap mic and is solidly put together too. I've got three and find them handy on all sorts of sources, but especially nice on guitars and brass.

monquixote

Redbox is very simple and sounds good

Strat_a_tat_tat

I've been micing up for all gigs over the past 5 years. Shure Beta 57 does the job.

ICBM

shaunm said:

Cheers for the suggestions guys. Last nights gig was frustrating in as much as the sound set up. I was very happy with my guitar tone but because the bass, drums and Vox were through the PA and the guitars weren't it meant that the volume from the gig was huge yet the clarity was not there. 

I will have a look at those suggestions as I don't want to be playing any other gigs without the guitar going through the PA.

I actually much prefer having a 'proper' backline stage sound with guitars and bass amplified to the same volume as the drums, with just the vocals in the monitors if possible - but it doesn't work when one instrument is done like that and the others aren't.

I'm not a fan having no (or almost no) stage level and relying purely on monitors to hear yourself either - at least not in a conventional rock band context.

To me it works best when the stage sound is well-balanced in itself so everyone can hear each other - which can depend on amp placement as well as volume - and then if that isn't enough for the room, do the rest with the PA. You really don't want to be trying to fill a room with your guitar amp if nothing else is at that volume.

shaunm

Too true @ICBM ;

I've just been discussing this with @shugz. Too compete with Vox, bass and drums through a PA you need a lot power in your amp to compete. Last night I was using a 2x10 18watt tweed. It's a credit to the volume of that amp that it could keep up at all. But all in all the sound was more like a competition, a tad frustrating.

Danny1969

In general I always mic the guitar regardless of the venue size ....... mainly because A : the soundman turns me up and down for solo's and that's not possible if not mic'ed and B : I like to use IEM's 

Some guys take the mic;ing up stage volume thing too far and basically play so quiet on stage it's all PA and no amp volume but that's not a good way to go in my opinion unless your using no amp and on an Axe FX or similar ....... Better to set the amp just under where it needs to be in the mix wise and use the PA for the last 20%  ..... otherwise turning up the guitar on the desk will actually result in turning up the drums in a typical pub scenario 
 

Beexter

I've used both an SM57 and a Sennheiser E906 and preferred the Sennheiser. Recently picked up a Palmer PDI09 "The Junction" and that is now my preference - just makes things a lot easier and sound-wise, it was a very close match to the sound of my cab alone and it is very consistent. Super convenient too.

impmann

There is a happy medium - but the louder the on-stage backline, the louder the drums are... remember the drummer will always drum to hear himself over your amp!

As @Danny1969 says, let the PA do the last 20% or so - it should have the power/clarity to cover it better than your guitar amp, plus whilst you may think you sound great the mix at the back of the room is rarely the same.

FWIW - the RedBox is brilliant, I've used mine for all sorts (plus you can use your pedal board into it as a last resort if the amp fails - the speaker sim is... alright). I've also used the Superlux from Thomann, which does sound better IMHO than an SM57... but then I've never liked Shure mics very much. Mics *can* sound better but the RedBox takes any random variation out of the equation and makes setting up *VERY* quick.

simonk

For smaller venues I tend to use the Palmer PDI09 or Radial JDX - it's just easier and eliminates spill. For bigger stages I'd be quite happy with a '57 although my personal favourite is the AT AE3000.

timmysoft

p90fool said:

Superlux do a good replica of the Sennheiser for about 40 quid, it really is excellent. 

Yeah they are really good, I've got one in my gig bag for emergencies, best bang for the buck mic on the market!

shaunm

timmysoft said:

p90fool said:

Superlux do a good replica of the Sennheiser for about 40 quid, it really is excellent. 

Yeah they are really good, I've got one in my gig bag for emergencies, best bang for the buck mic on the market!

Glad to hear it as I've just ordered one. 

erky32

Interesting subject, sorry if this is a bit off at a tangent, but latterly I've been working the band sound without monitors. It's a classic rock band playing 70s tunes, outdoor gigs need returns, but for last 3 indoor gigs, I've put the speakers on posts at the back, just for vox & keyb'd, guitar & bass purely of their own backline. The feedback I'm getting from folk is a much better sound, clearer and balanced. Indoors with monitors I never had that clarity I think because of the monitor FOH interference.. We dont have the luxury of a soundman, but the nice thing is that without monitors you hear what everybody hears, your overall volume is limited by feedback threshold, and what I'm planning to do next is put as much as poss behind the drummer so he might be tempted to drop to a bearable level!
Sorry if this thread was the wrong place, but the comments just stirred my need to say something!