the reason I won't buy a kemper etc...

EricTheWeary

I've said something similar to the OP in the past but actually I've come to agree with the opposite arguments. 
I've no interest in a Kemper,etc, because I can't afford one, they are more complex than I like and I've no great interest in that level of flexibility. However, I'm not a session guitarist or touring the world or even in a top level covers band. 


You'd think, yet somehow the Pods,etc, that everyone thought were brilliant at the time are somehow no longer good enough. So, we will see in ten years I guess...

thecolourbox said:

If it sounds good now surely it will always sound good?

fretmeister

thecolourbox said:

If it sounds good now surely it will always sound good?

Yes.

Beexter

I'm certainly interested in the latest digital kit but there are a couple of things holding me back:
1) If something purports to be an all in one solution (I'm looking at you Helix and AX8) then that's what I want it to be. Until such time as they get overdrive/ distortion/ fuzz to the point where I don't need an external pedal to make up for their deficiencies in that area, I'm staying old school.
2) Interface- these are improving but I think they're key. As an example, at rehearsal last night, we had a new guitarist join us. He was playing through a small mult-fx and on one of the songs,  was using way too much reverb. I suggested he turned it down a couple of notches but he couldn't "as it takes ages to do all the presets..I'll have to do it when I get home" I know that learning how your gear works is important but a properly thought through interface could really help.
I am most excited by the Kemper - I think the idea of being able to profile any amp I choose is fantastic- I'm not restricted to what choices the product design team made like I am with the Helix/ AX8 and there's no limit to how big my "virtual" amp collection can be. The sounds I've heard are very convincing.
When they can expand the technology to be able to profile pedals too (not as part of a specific amp chain), I'm in.

guitarfishbay

There are currently 256 amp (channel really) models in the Axe FX 2/AX 8. 

digitalscream

Beexter said:

I am most excited by the Kemper - I think the idea of being able to profile any amp I choose is fantastic- I'm not restricted to what choices the product design team made like I am with the Helix/ AX8 and there's no limit to how big my "virtual" amp collection can be. The sounds I've heard are very convincing.

Same here. The best thing about the Kemper for me is that it can solve problems and limitations with the original amp, so you actually end up with something better. I profiled my Kraken at gig volume a couple of weeks back - the issue I've always had with the Kraken is that there's a) not quite enough gain on the first channel, and b) too much of a low-end drop in the voicing of the second channel, when what most users seem to want is just the first channel with a lot more gain. With the Kemper, we simply profiled the first channel, and turned the gain up. Job done, and it sounded bloody epic.

With the new delays in the latest firmware, it could easily replace my entire setup.

John_A

Beexter said:

I'm certainly interested in the latest digital kit but there are a couple of things holding me back:
1) If something purports to be an all in one solution (I'm looking at you Helix and AX8) then that's what I want it to be. Until such time as they get overdrive/ distortion/ fuzz to the point where I don't need an external pedal to make up for their deficiencies in that area, I'm staying old school.

They are already there, the overdrive, distortion and fuzz on the Helix are fantastic.  But I find that most of the time a different amp will get me closer to the sound I'm looking for than a pedal in front of the amp I'm using.  

Im also using about 10% of the Helixs capability, so if the Helix 2 came out next week I wouldn't be buying as there's enough to keep me interested for years in this one

CDM83

Some very interesting comments here. Some people sound a bit upset at even the idea of questioning the modelling thing – but oh well.

 

I also read want Neville Marten had to say about his Helix – so it must be pretty darn good.

 

I totally see that a kemper etc as a compliment rig for recording/certain gigs can be a great thing. I also totally agree that properly servicing quality amps is an investment in itself. So, I’d probably concede on the investment point.

 

But – where I will need way more convincing is if these modelling amps can/will replace the old school set-up. I say old school – but I mean mixed in with some great modern pedals. It’s no point making comparisons to mobile phones etc. Most of us use guitars /amp designs that have barely changed for 60 years.

 

Technology may well make things more affordable, flexible, convenient and reliable  -and still achieve great results. But, for me, I can’t believe that it can ‘better’ my more traditional rig for pure tone.

 

When  the likes of John Mayer and Robben Ford decide to ditch their dumbles – maybe I’ll have a re-think.

 

simonk

CDM83 said:

When  the likes of John Mayer and Robben Ford decide to ditch their dumbles – maybe I’ll have a re-think.

 

Well Robben Ford has been championing the humble Roland Blues Cube of late.

CDM83

haven't seen his Dumble on ebay yet...

professorben

CDM83 said:

Some very interesting comments here. Some people sound a bit upset at even the idea of questioning the modelling thing – but oh well.

 

I also read want Neville Marten had to say about his Helix – so it must be pretty darn good.

 

I totally see that a kemper etc as a compliment rig for recording/certain gigs can be a great thing. I also totally agree that properly servicing quality amps is an investment in itself. So, I’d probably concede on the investment point.

 

But – where I will need way more convincing is if these modelling amps can/will replace the old school set-up. I say old school – but I mean mixed in with some great modern pedals. It’s no point making comparisons to mobile phones etc. Most of us use guitars /amp designs that have barely changed for 60 years.

 

Technology may well make things more affordable, flexible, convenient and reliable  -and still achieve great results. But, for me, I can’t believe that it can ‘better’ my more traditional rig for pure tone.

 

When  the likes of John Mayer and Robben Ford decide to ditch their dumbles – maybe I’ll have a re-think.

 

but why would they? 
When you have enough money in the bank to play anything you want, have spent the best part of your career trying everything and finally settling on what you like, AND have a crew to lug your kit about for you, I'm sure we would all play great vintage/unobtanium gear. 

My only reason for not having a Kemper powered head right this very second, is that I don't have the £1600 I need to get one. 

It sounds amazing, feels just like any amp, it's light, portable etc etc. 

I love my amp, I'm fond of my pedals, I admit I find it hard to reconcile in my mind that this new tech is comparable to my old stuff, but recently I walked into a shop and heard what I can only describe as the best strat tone I've EVER heard in real life, poked my head round the corner and it's the guy in the shop playing a Squire Vintage Vibe through a Kemper.

 

digitalscream

CDM83 said:

Some very interesting comments here. Some people sound a bit upset at even the idea of questioning the modelling thing – but oh well. 

I don't think anybody's upset here...

CDM83 said:

But, for me, I can’t believe that it can ‘better’ my more traditional rig for pure tone. 

...and you're the only one talking about something's sound based on personal beliefs, as though that has anything to do with how they sound and feel...?

Seems to me that you're writing it off based on ideology without ever having tried it, or even heard it. Try profiling your main amp at gig volume with a Kemper, and then playing through the Kemper at the same volume. Even better, do a blind A/B test.

I promise you that it will change at least some of your "beliefs". I went into it convinced that the Kemper wouldn't stand up to my Kraken, and in the end I preferred it.

guitarfishbay

CDM83 said:

But – where I will need way more convincing is if these modelling amps can/will replace the old school set-up. I say old school – but I mean mixed in with some great modern pedals. 

Why would you do this though?

The majority of people I know running digital rigs are pretty much using them for everything (either all effects with a valve amp, or the whole signal including the amp part), unless they need something specific that can't be approximated with the unit.  It makes the most sense to do this - otherwise you end up with a lot of additional complexity (gain staging - a knock to a pedal control and the whole digital patch could be off) and failure points (additional pedals, cables, power supplies), and additional setup/pack down time...

Some major acts use digital modelling.  My knowledge is mostly around Fractal because that's what I use, but major acts are using Kemper and Helix too.  The Edge uses Axe FX 2's on any U2 fly gigs/TV gigs etc, replacing his whole rig.  Metallica replaced their entire touring rig with Axe FX 2s.  These are household name musicians with plenty of access to high end gear.

Don't get me wrong I'd love to have one of each type of valve amp and cabinet I want, but I don't have the space or the money.

professorben

I think the main sticking point for a lot of guys is the rather evangelical stance of people. 
It's either for or against, where as its not as cut and dried, I like Pete Thorns approach, he has valve amps, pedals, a Helix an AxeFX and a Kemper. 
He uses them all to the best effect, either combined or individually. 

Obviously most of us don't have the space or budget to indulge like that, but I think we can pick and choose the best of both worlds. 

guitarfishbay

Yeah absolutely.  It is all about picking tools at the end of the day, with the budget you have.

Many people who've 'gone digital' have had to make a choice based on budget to be one or the other... however there are several members on here who have both high end digital and high end valve gear.

I've considered re-buying a valve head again (I've still got, and still use my traditional cabs) but to be honest I've been way more excited about bass gear so I guess to me, owning a valve head again is down my priorities list.  Doesn't mean I don't like them though.

CDM83

Agree, there is a place for all of this great gear. 

As much as there is a camp of  guitarists that will never give it a try - there are many others who say this is the start of the end for valve amps. I hope not. 

 

Teetonetal

The OPs question is about a reluctance to buy due to the way digital gear always seems to be updated and replaced, rather than actually about a sound quality issue.

for me, helix does exactly what I need it to today. (for me its about providing a recording solution for fx pedals, to integrate with both my pedals and vsts) nothing else does that as well.

then it's a m/fx if I want

then it's a whole amp rig if I want.

so yes, money well spent and if I need to replace it with the latest and greatest in a couple of years, I will. Gear has to do what you need it to do, today... then it's money well spent. Who knows where you'll be in 10 years. 

that said if all I could use for 10 years was my pleximan, I'd also be happy.