Croydon Tram Crash

cruxiform

7 dead. 50 injured. Tragic. RIP to those who lost their lives. 

Drew_TNBD

Savage :-/

Fretwired

Saw it unfolding on the news .. tragic .. I see the driver's been arrested. Interesting interview with a regular passenger who claimed the trams often travelled too fast for the bend. RIP.

holnrew

I wouldn't be surprised if the timetables were that tight that they didn't have time to slow down. 

joeyowen

I've seen one of the passengers share a Facebook status from a week earlier saying how it went fast enough around that bend they were all frightened:

capo4th

It's the Alton Towers of South London the bend in question is a sharp right turn rather than a bend. It would be fast in a car at 30mph. 

sev112

I'm astonished at the reports of the speed that the trams are apparently going round that bend.  The bifurcation is also on quite a steep slope, and the detailed tram was turning left and coming up the slope at that point.

i have stood at that spot and walked along that track a number of times, and I cannot believe that speed.

If that facebook post is true, them I am even more shocked than I was yesterday - in fact I was more down about this than I was about Trump.  Having said that, a facebook post does not mean it actually was going at 40mph, but the fact that they apparently were so concerned as a traveller a week or so back is very worrying

LoFi

A friend of mine was working in Croydon University Hospital yesterday. She phoned me at the end of her shift and burst into tears. Grim.

earwighoney

LoFi said:

A friend of mine was working in Croydon University Hospital yesterday. She phoned me at the end of her shift and burst into tears. Grim.

Must have been incredibly hard for her, I have nothing but respect and admiration for those who are on 'the front line' when it comes to times of crisis as such. 

I'm in agreement about the FB post being very shocking as it would seem to indicate drivers speeding are not isolated incidents.  

The closest tram stop is pretty much at the bottom of my friend's road.  I'm well aware of the place where it happened.  

Grim times

Axe_meister

I drive through That area a lot. There is very little separation of traffic and trams at many critical points

crunchman

I know in the old days that London Underground managers used to go out with a speed gun occasionally on some lines.  These days it's less of an issue as most of the trains are driven automatically, or have data loggers on the trains.  You do wonder whether an approach like that still makes sense on lines where trains/trams are driven manually.

boogieman

I'm amazed there isn't an automatic speed limiter on the dodgier sections of the track. 

fretmeister

Some newspapers are claiming that the tram was at 50mph on a section where the limit should be 12 mph.

I would be very surprised if a tram could get to 50mph. 

crunchman

boogieman said:

I'm amazed there isn't an automatic speed limiter on the dodgier sections of the track. 

I'm sure that there will be in future.

Ultimately though, if the trams have been doing the kinds of speeds that are being talked about where they are doing 3 times the speed limit (or more) that is criminal recklessness.  If someone is driving through a 30mph limit at 90mph then there is a good chance the driver will go to jail if they are caught.  If they are doing 40mph in a 30mph limit then it's 3 points on the license.

It's one thing doing 15mph, or even 20mph, in a 12mph speed limit, and you will normally get away with that unless the wheel is on the limit of it's wear, and the rail is on the limit of it's wear at the same time.  Doing the kinds of speeds that are being talked about is completely out of order.  If it is an ongoing issue, and management have been turning a blind eye then there will be questions asked there as well.

holnrew

fretmeister said:

Some newspapers are claiming that the tram was at 50mph on a section where the limit should be 12 mph.

I would be very surprised if a tram could get to 50mph. 

Just looked it up on Wikipedia and that's their top speed, although I'd be surprised if they got near that in operation. 30mph is probably about right

capo4th

It's a sharp left turn anything more than 10-15mph and your gonna be in trouble.

The driver is going to jail ! 

guitarfishbay

Really sad news, best wishes to anyone affected.

Reverend

capo4th said:

It's a sharp left turn anything more than 10-15mph and your gonna be in trouble.

The driver is going to jail ! 

There has been talk of the driver blacking out? Whats the legal position on that?  

Nikko

Reverend said:

capo4th said:

It's a sharp left turn anything more than 10-15mph and your gonna be in trouble.

The driver is going to jail ! 

There has been talk of the driver blacking out? Whats the legal position on that?  

If that's true, it sounds vaguely similar to that dustcart driver in Glasgow that killed people when he 'Blacked out'. I know he had lied about his health though, and im not sure of the circumstances of this tram driver.

cj73

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38003934

Nice to see the union blowing smoke in the face of reality

crunchman

They do have a point about getting some kind of automatic braking installed on the trams.  Yes the driver was to blame (unless he had a blackout with no previous medical history of them), but with systems like they have on the Tube or mainline rail he would have just got the sack rather than killing 7 people.