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Also solid state amps tend not to have as good speakers, so even at the same measured wattage that can mean a huge volume difference.
Usually massive.
There is also a massive difference between different valve amps that claim to be 20 watt from too quiet to get above a drummer all the way to mind explodingly loud.
Not only that, a fully-cranked 15W solid-state power stage will sound horrible so you'll be using it clean with preamp distortion only (it may even be intentionally designed like that), which limits the effective power to no more than about half that, whereas a 15W valve amp will usually sound glorious overdriven, at which point it could be putting out up to 30W… so that's another four-to-one advantage to the valve amp.
And that's even before you get into technicalities of speaker thermal compression, power stage damping, soft clipping points vs hard distortion, and other things which make a valve amp sound louder than even a solid-state one of exactly the same measured power into the same speaker.
I would say that you need around a 100W solid-state amp, even through good speakers, just to be as loud as a cranked-up 20W valve amp.
The difference is less important for strictly clean sounds, yes - and especially if you want full-range tones (lots of solid bass and treble clarity for playing full clean chords rather than compressed midrange for soloing) - that's where low-powered valve amps will still struggle.
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I've never used my Lonestar Special live - but have doubts about its clean headroom, even set to 30 watts. There almost seems to be an inverse snobbery around how few watts people gig with these days.
Does anyone genuinely get good cleans at stage volumes from a low (i.e. sub-50watt) amp?
Who'd have thought P&W had to be played so loud.
I thought God was all around us.
To be fair, ac30s are bastard loud - and they seem to hit all the right frequencies to cut through anything.
I get great cleans from my 20W V6-20.
It's not that head-slicing crystal clean you'd get from a Twin at the same volume, but then that's not what I want. I define my clean as a good clean for what I do, and a lot of other guys would too. Some wouldn't, horses for courses.
I mostly play smallish places, but on the odd occasion I've played bigger, I've been miked up. But then I'd have been miked up even if I'd had a bigger amp to get the spread.
Stage volumes are not an issue.... it's more than enough.
Certain 30w amps like the Vox AC30 and Laney VC30 are insanely loud and louder than most 100w solid state amps (and probably even approaching as loud as some 100w valve amps!). I say most because there have been some insanely loud solid state amps such as the H&H IC100. There was also a solid state amp that so impressed Pete Townsend re volume and valve like tone that he got one for himself. I can't recall the name but I think it was called a Blue Tone or something like that. I think it was only made as a 30w but it bore no comparison with a typical 30w SS amp. I'm sure it was the introduction of digital modelling that brought about the death knoll of the development of such SS amps.
And I think a nod to the latest generation of solid state amps is called for too, where volume is getting very close to valve equivalent volumes. Examples include the Blackstar ID amps such as the ID60, the new Vox VTX and AV series (these do have valves too), and by all reports the new Boss Katana.
20 to 100 equivalence? With the ever greater efficiency in tone, volume and feel of modern solid state amps that is making them more appealing to more and more players, including professionals, I just don't agree 20:100 is a reasonable comparator.
However, I would caveat my comments because we probably need to consider what is considered solid state. Some amps are hybrids and use valves in various ways eg my Valvetronix has two valves (effectively in the power-section, reacting to speaker impedence - different design to the subsequent models) & my Marshall Valvestate has a single 12AX7 but this is only used to warm tone.
Anyway, all I'm suggesting is that the great valve/solid-state volume 'divide' is no longer the gaping chasm it used to be.
Yep I played a 22 watt deluxe for years stayed mostly clean at most venues.
As @Photek will confirm the 25 watt puretone is so loud it's actually hard to get it the sweet spot at a lot of venues.
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He was right it was overpowering on stage volume, with nothing through monitors and a Drummer who isn't shy. Had it on both Vols set at 9 O'Clock in the end.
The room was about 60 ft by 40 ft. With it miced up and after putting a bit through monitors it was fine.
The Blackstar ID series is a deliberate cheat - they're actually twice the claimed power, intentionally to allow them to simulate an overdriven valve amp. I do think it's a 'fair cheat' though, because that's exactly why comparing the same power doesn't really work otherwise.
I think 4:1 or 5:1 is about right on average, for overdriven sounds. Less for clean, but still at least 2:1. There are real physics reasons for this, it's not that valves are somehow 'magic' - mostly it's because you can overdrive a valve power amp but not a solid-state one (if you want it to sound any good), and a slightly overdriven valve amp doesn't sound noticeably distorted in the way a solid-state one does.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein