Do I really need an amp any more?

thecolourbox

I had a massive fire sale clear out just over a year ago in order to get a few better quality items and get back to playing. Well this has inevitably crept back up again and I now have arguably a more confused and disorganised setup than before.

I'm currently mostly playing through a couple of drive pedals through either a Mesa VTwin or Kingsley Squire preamp, through a speaker Sim and into my TC vocal effects for the reverb. This then goes into a couple of studio monitors.

I've a Fender 68 Reissue Princeton reverb which I bought to use at home but also so that I wouldn't be that annoying person who when given the chance to gig or play along with somebody else didn't have an actual amp to use. I played it twice at a couple of low key solo gigs. I've not used it at all since at least May, it's too loud for the room I'm in as I have to sit too close to it, if it's at knee height It's muffled and if it's at head height it's too full on in the face.

But do I even need an amp at all? I haven't gigged since those two as quite frankly I wasn't very good, I only got those two gigs because they were free events in a local library, and the host/audience weren't greatly fussy. I'm very doubtful I'd be allowed to gig again like that, I'm not going to be good enough nor have any time to be in a band so basically I'll only be playing at home, so having an expensive amp sitting in the corner with it's jacket on never getting touched just seems pointless. What would you guys do? Sell it and put the money towards something like a nice instrument (not an acoustic before anybody goes down that road again!), or a nice keyboard?

To be honest I'm not sure the Mesa or Kingsley are really worth keeping, I only have them to use my drive pedals through them as the digital modelling products I have don't allow it.

Winny_Pooh

A princeton is worth a fair amount secondhand. You could sell it, get a small decent used solid state amp and a nice bass guitar & synth.

simonk

Try something like a Yamaha THR - they're perfect for that on the table in front of you arrangement.

And don't talk yourself down!

thecolourbox

Winny_Pooh said:

A princeton is worth a fair amount secondhand. You could sell it, get a small decent used solid state amp and a nice bass guitar & synth.

That's sort of what I'm thinking yeah, though the world of nice solid state amps that work with pedals is a mystery to me entirely. I like the look of the small Jazz Chorus amps but a) they seem quite expensive for what they are and b) they wouldn't be loud enough to give any reason for having one over the monitors I'm using now. I have a synth already but would prefer something that had nice epiano and organ noises, but I'm not sure anything exists that is small enough but sounds good

simonk said:

Try something like a Yamaha THR - they're perfect for that on the table in front of you arrangement.

Not a fan to be honest, sounded like an ipod dock to me and again. I may as well just use the monitor speakers as they'll sound much nicer. Tried the Blackstar ID Core as well but didn't really work hence my purchase of the monitors!

simonk said:

And don't talk yourself down!

You wouldn't say that if you heard me

p90fool

It sounds like you have the perfect home setup to me, sell the Princeton and have a dirty weekend away with the missus. 

If you do ever get asked to play a low key informal gig again (and you will), you can bung your V-twin through a borrowed powered monitor or cheap PA cab.  

ICBM

You don't *need* an amp. If your set-up is based around a preamp into monitors then if you need to play a gig, you can do the same and go into the PA.

But an amp is useful, sometimes. You just don't need anything as expensive as a Princeton. I would sell that and buy something like a small modelling amp (not a THR, something with a proper guitar-type speaker) or possibly an acoustic amp, keyboard amp or 'PA in a box' type amp you can run the preamps through. That will keep your sound consistent with what you're doing now. If it's a modeller something like the new Line 6 Spider which has a full-range speaker system would probably be best.

Whatever you choose I would keep at least one of the preamps - the Mesa if the Kingsley doesn't have onboard speaker emulation (I'm not familiar with them) - since a hardware option you can plug into anything is always a good backup.

I sometimes wonder about this sort of thing myself - I don't play electric guitar in a band any more, just acoustic (and even that only very rarely).

thecolourbox

p90fool said:

It sounds like you have the perfect home setup to me, sell the Princeton and have a dirty weekend away with the missus. 

In theory it could be quite a decent home style set up but it is such a faff, and seem to use a million plugs and wires which then trail everywhere and leave a real of destruction if I move. The chain is as follows:

Variax guitar power supply (hopefully this guitar will be gone soon though). 12v ac plug
Into whammy 5, can't be Daisy chained so its own 9vdc PSU
Into fuzz, which when I get one that I like can be Daisy chained with...
... Overdrive, for which I either use MXR distortion plus or JHS Twin Twelve. So one plug between two which feeds the multi psu think I have, Caline branded pedal supply thing
Then into preamp, either Mesa or Kingsley. Mesa has it's own massive 12v supply, Kingsley is 9v but not sure it can be Daisy chained on the caline PSU thing.
Speaker Sim courtesy of the Amt Pangaea, yet another plug.
Into TC Helicon voice live with guitar fx for reverb, yet another plug.
Then the studio monitors have a plug due each speaker.
And if I have my Microkorg plugged in the same time, there's another.

So that's 8 plugs across two extension leads, and a million wires that are just in the way, and they still don't sound as nice as the Princeton, albeit they are quieter. The preamp+speaker Sim+TC multi fx+monitors also add up price wise to more than the Princeton!

I understand it's always about compromise so trading off sound for size etc is something I'd have to factor in, But it all just seems too much of a faff. However using modeling tech which might simplify things (I've a zoom g3 and have tried others around that level) I find can't use my drive pedals with them in the same way.

Interestingly the Twin Twelve pedal sounded quite acceptable just as a preamp into the Pangaea speaker Sim, but that only really saves one plug albeit quite a bit of space potentially as everything could be board mounted. Oh I don't know, think I'm just making things difficult for myself.

Trouble is, the Princeton is a nice sounding amp, second only to the hot rod deluxe in my list of favorite amps, and wouldn't necessarily be that easy to get another one at the price I did, I just feel a) it's a waste and b) I don't really have the space to store it anywhere.

ICBM, what solid state or digital amps should I look to try out? Apart from the line 6. I play Jeff Buckley songs and I play White Stripes and Strokes style indie almost exclusively if that helps. Interestingly I prefer the Kingsley to the Mesa, I think the Mesa has a lot more going for it but I just don't think I'm a fan of the overall sound for my playing. The Kingsley is closer for the two above stores of playing I do.

Problem is the room is not very big so positioning an amp to sound nice is not easy

p90fool said:

If you do ever get asked to play a low key informal gig again (and you will), 

No I really won't!! It was a very charitable setup that got me the two gigs I did do, and they are no longer running them so that's me done

ICBM

To be honest, if you think the Princeton sounds nicer why not just use it? I don't really understand the 'too loud' problem... it has a volume control which in my experience has a very nice taper and will go all the way down to whisper volume. Assuming you're not trying to get power stage breakup, anyway.

You mention it's too in-your-face when it's at head height with the speaker pointing straight at you - from memory the '68 version has a more 'rock' voiced Celestion, possibly a different speaker would help.

You could try a Fender Mustang if you're thinking of a modeller - most of the sounds you mention are Fender-ish rather than Marshall/Mesa. Oddly in that big shootout demo that was posted here the Mustang didn't sound good clean, but that's not my personal experience with them. They also have the controls in an unusual top-front position which might be useful in a small space.

thecolourbox

It's silent up to one, then sounds a bit muffled between one and two, then it's too loud for how close I have to sit to it. I did use it with the Jettenuator to have something of a master volume but the cable from speaker output was a little bit too short so was a bit ungainly and also the risk of disconnecting which wouldn't be good.

Also the only place I can put an amp is on top of my chest of drawers, there is literally nowhere else to put it if im using it, and then it looks a bit like a stack high up the wall and very cluttered

I think in fairness I need to realise the guitar is not the instrument for me

p90fool

I'm a big fan of putting a double-layered cross of gaffa tape between the speaker and baffle, it's made a huge difference to all my combos in diffusing the harshness of having a speaker pointed directly at your head, and it definitely works on Princetons.

It makes it sounds like you're slightly off-axis and is consistent over a wide radius.
And it's free.

ICBM

thecolourbox said:

It's silent up to one, then sounds a bit muffled between one and two, then it's too loud for how close I have to sit to it.

That sounds like they might be using a lower-quality pot than in the older reissues. I haven't tried one of the '68s yet so I didn't expect that.

Have you tried tilting it back a bit when it's at floor level?

p90fool

ICBM said:

thecolourbox said:

It's silent up to one, then sounds a bit muffled between one and two, then it's too loud for how close I have to sit to it.

That sounds like they might be using a lower-quality pot than in the older reissues. I haven't tried one of the '68s yet so I didn't expect that.

Have you tried tilting it back a bit when it's at floor level?

It could be a one-off, my Custom 68 sounds excellent from the very bottom of its travel.

thecolourbox

ICBM said:

thecolourbox said:

It's silent up to one, then sounds a bit muffled between one and two, then it's too loud for how close I have to sit to it.

That sounds like they might be using a lower-quality pot than in the older reissues. I haven't tried one of the '68s yet so I didn't expect that.

Have you tried tilting it back a bit when it's at floor level?

I've no floor space to put it on unfortunately

ICBM

In that case I would say go back to Plan A - no amp. The question is then what to use to connect to your studio monitors…

A decent rack multi-FX/preamp modelling unit, possibly.

thecolourbox

Sorry I think I'm just making life more difficult than it needs to be at present

Jez6345789

Frankly you are heading to Kemper territory, you could easily profile your existing setup then flog it on along with the Princeton, plus you then have decent effects and all the different profiles to play with. 

I have used it out 4 times in the last two years twice through a PA and again through a powered speaker and each time everyone commented about how good it sound.

regards jez 

ICBM

thecolourbox said:

Sorry I think I'm just making life more difficult than it needs to be at present

In that case strip it back to the bare minimum and see where you're at - don't give up.

Sell the Princeton and the Mesa, get a pedalboard with a multi-outlet power supply for the others so they only need one power cable, and then think what (if anything) you might like to spend the money on.

If you're only ever going to do occasional gigs where there will be a PA then you don't actually need an amp as long as you have something with speaker emulation.

EricTheWeary

My Mustang combo is pretty small and light. I know it has limitations but the plug in and play aspect works for me, I can't have my pedalboard and valve amp set up at home. It has a lively sound at bedroom levels, I can dial in an approximation of the handful of sounds I use live with the turn if a knob and go. They are £110 new so if it doesn't get a lot of use I wouldn't be too upset. 
Anything more complex than a one box solution I'd almost never plug in at home.

thecolourbox

Thing is Phil I only ever play at home, so that's why I wanted to make that the most fulfilling playing environment I can rather than having a band scenario to enjoy myself in and just needing a quick practice set up at home, if that makes sense

I tried stripping everything back last Christmas which is when I ended up with the all but I simply didn't plan the rebuild very well.

Thanks for the help chaps but I think this was possibly just another outlet for me moaning so think I just need to think about whether I really need any of it at all, as I said above I need to recognise I'm not a guitar player, grow up and stick to hobbies I can actually do something with

agibbo

I used to use a Line 6 guitar port when I lived with my parents years ago, and amp volume was an issue. Not sure if they still support it, but they were ace for home/computer use with some decent monitors or even headphones.

peteri

Thought - check out the Two Notes Torpedo.

I've played with running my pedalboard straight into it and it sounds great - has power amp simulation and speakers/room reverb.

Sounds a lot better than you'd think with normal pedals in front and a lot less wires!