Don't you just feel like packing it all in after the 100th gear related disappointment?

lukedlb

Patience with unreliable techs, pedal compatibility problems, pedal disappointments, amp volume fluctuations, and generally a world of electronics behind the curtain that forever puts you in the dark?
Doesn't it just want to make you pack it in after having wasted so much time; the little that you do have is spent trying to fix the gear you spent hours trying to buy.

sweepy

Just compare it to how much you'd spend on Golf or Cycling, music making is "relatively" cheap and painless

Jack_

Modelling.

Come realise the simple life.

lukedlb

Jack_ said:

Modelling.

Come realise the simple life.

I know, Jack. I know... I just can't do it. I know what a 67 plexi sounds like. An original Uni-vibe. A tube tremolo. A true fuzz face. ..... 
I put my toe in the water with a neo ventilator that imitates my real Leslie spot on: it weighs less, has no cabinet distortion problems and has a range of settings. but it can't throw air around... However, the result is I never use the Leslie.

Bridgehouse

lukedlb said:

Jack_ said:

Modelling.

Come realise the simple life.

I know, Jack. I know... I just can't do it. I know what a 67 plexi sounds like. An original Uni-vibe. A tube tremolo. A true fuzz face. ..... 
I put my toe in the water with a neo ventilator that imitates my real Leslie spot on: it weighs less, has no cabinet distortion problems and has a range of settings. but it can't throw air around... However, the result is I never use the Leslie.

See, you're over half way there already..

For me, the key question with modelling isn't 'can I tell?' It's 'can the punters tell'

And I think that one answers itself...

lukedlb

@Bridgehouse is right, of course, but the times I've sat in the audience in a festival where the guitarists all used the same amps but just fed different pedalboards into it... and I'm thinking what the hell is that god awful tone that was glorious two bands back?

Bridgehouse

lukedlb said:

@Bridgehouse is right, of course, but the times I've sat in the audience in a festival where the guitarists all used the same amps but just fed different pedalboards into it... and I'm thinking what the hell is that god awful tone that was glorious two bands back?

You're not the average punter tho

Now don't get me wrong, studio and live are two totally different beasts, but for live I tend to consider a range of factors:

Portability
Reliability
Projection
Tone
Clarity
How it sits in the mix
Hiw does it get fed into FOH

etc etc - and probably in the order stated above. Ok, I don't want it to sound like a dog, but if something is half the weight and a quarter the size and 95% of the tone then I'd go for it. It's amazing how quickly you get pissed off with something that gives great tone but weighs 100lbs and doesn't fit in the back of the Focus.. 

Prolly just me tho.. would explain why I always sounded crap

Now I've switched to bass I'm looking for a gig rig and weight/size is a big factor - there's more choice in bass land and fx aren't as much of an issue, but man is reliability a big thing...

Winny_Pooh

You could always give up and play bass

Bridgehouse

Winny_Pooh said:

You could always give up and play bass

That's what I did. Now every pedal broadly sounds the same

Alnico

Jack_ said:

Modelling.

Come realise what 'Flat Earth' really means ! 

Fixed that for you.

MrT

I find when playing bass I'm far less fussy about my tone. Maybe because I'm not trying to compete with other guitars and keys to poke out of the mix or maybe it's because I give myself less options. I put together a little bass pedal board and I've yet to even really use it. If only I could apply that same principal to my guitar playing and I'd spend less time and money on here and more on playing! 

dindude

I know what you mean, my kit is realitely simple but there's Always something that needs doing to it, either through my own restless ness or actual faults developing.

But, I just don't buy the audience can't tell argument, it's about inspiring yourself to play better - that the audience can tell.

Teetonetal

dindude said:

I know what you mean, my kit is realitely simple but there's Always something that needs doing to it, either through my own restless ness or actual faults developing.

But, I just don't buy the audience can't tell argument, it's about inspiring yourself to play better - that the audience can tell.

I don't believe that argument at all... guess you have never toured with a rented back line? The idea really is that you are good enough to make sure gear doesn't impact whether or not the audience has a good time.

Don't blame the tools etc.

ElectroDan

All the disappointment I had gear wise was before I went Lo-Tech. Out with everything apart from Guitar, Over Drive and Amp (I could easily get rid of the Over Drive too if I wanted).
I had 1000 average sounds available, now I have Four awesome ones.
I would love an AFX2 for the man cave, but live I'm sorted.

dindude

Teetonetal said:

dindude said:

I know what you mean, my kit is realitely simple but there's Always something that needs doing to it, either through my own restless ness or actual faults developing.

But, I just don't buy the audience can't tell argument, it's about inspiring yourself to play better - that the audience can tell.

I don't believe that argument at all... guess you have never toured with a rented back line? The idea really is that you are good enough to make sure gear doesn't impact whether or not the audience has a good time.

Don't blame the tools etc.

Im not saying that you suddenly lose all your skills with inferior kit, but great kit does inspire, and not wanting to use the best you can get your hands on is just bizarre to me, but no, I'm not a touring muso so what do I know.

Voxman

I've kind of gone full circle.  I've still got amps (3 valve, 2 hybrid) and traditional pedal-board, but nowadays its the, schlapping, the weight & set-up time (eg miking up an amp) that I've got fed up with. I can't afford or really justify a Helix, AxFx or Kemper.

So to keep things simple I've gone old tech and over the last 18 mths or so now just use a Vox Tonelab LE and more recently SE.

Teetonetal

dindude said:

Teetonetal said:

dindude said:

I know what you mean, my kit is realitely simple but there's Always something that needs doing to it, either through my own restless ness or actual faults developing.

But, I just don't buy the audience can't tell argument, it's about inspiring yourself to play better - that the audience can tell.

I don't believe that argument at all... guess you have never toured with a rented back line? The idea really is that you are good enough to make sure gear doesn't impact whether or not the audience has a good time.

Don't blame the tools etc.

Im not saying that you suddenly lose all your skills with inferior kit, but great kit does inspire, and not wanting to use the best you can get your hands on is just bizarre to me, but no, I'm not a touring muso so what do I know.

Great kit does inspire. No doubt. But so does cheap kit, so does modelling kit. So does volume.

My point is that if you are any good - you should be able to give an audience a performance they can enjoy. I'd argue that a good crowd who are up for it are way more important than whether you use a Helix, Friedmann or Pedals into a twin.. so long as you can get a sound that is nearly there and delivers the songs, you will be fine.

I think the quality of your back line is a marginal gain. I'd agree that if the onstage sound is awesome then you might play better. But a gig is so much more than the sound coming out of your amp. Is the band well rehearsed, is the singer good - how is the monitor mix, how does your inspiring sound sit in the stage mix. How is the crowd, are they sober, tipsy, drunk, aggressive, reserved.... an up for it crowd can make a mediocre gig into an excellent one.

There are so many variables that your personal guitar sound really just becomes a small part of the overall performance. It might be that a quieter stage, using modelling with really good monitor mix might be a better sound for the whole band to get inspired, rather than being drowned out by an over zealous guitar player who has a diva fit if he hasn't got his sound, therefore leaving the rest of the band with volume wars or a terrible mix to fight.

Pro musicians play all the time on rented kit, some of it awful. By and large the audiance probably don't care one bit, so long as the end result is good.

I agree, that playing a show with inadiquite gear with terrible on stage sound can be pretty soul destroying and lead to a poor performance , but outside of that - with good PA and decent valve amps or modelling gear and a good onstage sound, I don't think the crowed will notice anything when it comes to real vs modelled..

slacker

dindude said:

I know what you mean, my kit is realitely simple but there's Always something that needs doing to it, either through my own restless ness or actual faults developing.

But, I just don't buy the audience can't tell argument, it's about inspiring yourself to play better - that the audience can tell.

I'ved used enough backline to know what works for me in what style and what overdrive to use with what amp at what volume. However I'll always use my amps if I can. I like the Vox clean sound. Most of what I play out is clean so a decent clean sound is all I need. 

However my start up covers band heavily relies on the EH Mel 9. Until it broke. So now whilst I will get another Mel9 or synth pedal I have worked out how to get usable sounds from my other pedals. 

IMHO it's always choice first then cope when you have to. 

Wazmeister

Luke,

It was the main reason I sold the G2 and a host of pedals, great as they are... hassle, wiring, weight etc etc

Fractal FX8 is the answer. Simply stunning sounds, dirt cheap when compared to some ofbthe boards we build, silent, light, effortless...

Ive spent more hours playing, and less wiring/sorting

bluechargeboy

I now play acoustic guitar on stage but I have been through three different tuners (they are all fine) in the last three years, so I conclude it is a mental problem rather than a gear problem.

lukedlb

@Wazmeister , i know, i know.... and I recognize the folly and moreover recognise the services of gigrig or @CustomPedalBoards who offer to put together the board for you thereby eliminating the hassles and i mean neverending hassles. Yeah, it seems like an unnecessary extra cost but now I see its sense: the little time i have to play has almost entirely been consumed by pedal issues/testing/configuration/soldering/powering, the result being quite a messy pedalboard. I've continually postponed posting a photo to the forum because it has never been complete.
My advice to all is pay a professional to set it up and forego buying that extra pedal instead.