King of Tone, is it that good?

ICBM

hotpickups said:

So are we saying that the KOT is a bit of a con then price wise?

Not sure. Given that it appears to be assembled by hand in small numbers, it's probably not overpriced for the work that goes into it - although you could almost certainly get the same thing a lot cheaper if you wanted to. It depends what you want to pay for and whether you believe it sounds magically better than a Bluesbreaker really.

hotpickups

ICBM said:

hotpickups said:

So are we saying that the KOT is a bit of a con then price wise?

Not sure. Given that it appears to be assembled by hand in small numbers, it's probably not overpriced for the work that goes into it - although you could almost certainly get the same thing a lot cheaper if you wanted to. It depends what you want to pay for and whether you believe it sounds magically better than a Bluesbreaker really.

Surely it has some redeeming features though I guess. Internal switches for boost, OD functions stacking choices and in my case of interest the option of the 4 jacks. Also the second power out option?

ICBM

hotpickups said:

Surely it has some redeeming features though I guess. Internal switches for boost, OD functions stacking choices and in my case of interest the option of the 4 jacks. Also the second power out option?

Yes, if those things are useful to you - although you get four jacks and the stacking order options with two Bluesbreakers too . I just get slightly annoyed by the hype about how it's been carefully modified and improved, whereas really it's just the same circuit with a couple of extras tacked on. If it has these magic properties of somehow sounding 'like your amp but more of it', then so does a Bluesbreaker.

This is probably in danger of turning into me having a go at most of the boutique pedal world for similar reasons . I really just threw in that original comment flippantly to be honest… and I genuinely didn't know how much people seem to be prepared to pay for tatty old Bluesbreakers, so at least the next time I come across one I won't sell if for forty quid and think I've done well .

hotpickups

I agree @ICBM  . I know that I'll never buy any of the used ones you see on here going for the silly money they're asking for them sometimes when with a bit of patience I can get one cheaper from the builder  

mgaw

where does the extremely reasonably priced snouse blackbox fit in amongst the expensive KOT's  i will be AB a KOT and a Snouse next week

BBBlues

ICBM said:

hotpickups said:

Surely it has some redeeming features though I guess. Internal switches for boost, OD functions stacking choices and in my case of interest the option of the 4 jacks. Also the second power out option?

Yes, if those things are useful to you - although you get four jacks and the stacking order options with two Bluesbreakers too . I just get slightly annoyed by the hype about how it's been carefully modified and improved, whereas really it's just the same circuit with a couple of extras tacked on. If it has these magic properties of somehow sounding 'like your amp but more of it', then so does a Bluesbreaker.

This is probably in danger of turning into me having a go at most of the boutique pedal world for similar reasons . I really just threw in that original comment flippantly to be honest… and I genuinely didn't know how much people seem to be prepared to pay for tatty old Bluesbreakers, so at least the next time I come across one I won't sell if for forty quid and think I've done well .

Modern times. 2 x original bluesbreakers will have set you back £300 for about the last 2-3 years at least. My KOT was less than this new.

Have I owned an original BB and compared to the KOT? Yes. Things to note:

- The jack sockets come loose on the BB?
Expected response: ok just change them?
My response: Analogman did.

- The KOT has a 3-way gain switch
Expected reponse: yeah but all you need to do that is get a soldering iron and do these 5 component changes.
My response: Analogman did.

- The gain on an original BB when maxed out is about 2-o'clock on the KOT.
Expected response: oh the pots just need changing and this also needs tweeked
My response: Analogman did.

...and so on. I could name another 5 things like this.

Do you see where I'm going?

There's no point having a go at people who are paying more than new prices second hand. It's simple supply and demand. All boutique gear is tweaked out copies of other original gear. Just accept there is a market for this, you don't have to spend your money on it.

ICBM

BBBlues said:

Modern times. 2 x original bluesbreakers will have set you back £300 for about the last 2-3 years at least. 

I'd say closer to £200 than £300 going by Ebay completed prices, but I still find that crazy. It's not only a very simple circuit, it's a pretty poorly-made pedal - as you say the jacks and pots (and switch) are junk. You could easily build a much better-quality copy for far less - I'm actually surprised Joyo or one of the other Chinese companies don't seem to given the apparent demand - then it would be £30 brand new.

BBBlues said:

All boutique gear is tweaked out copies of other original gear. Just accept there is a market for this, you don't have to spend your money on it.

Not quite all - there is some genuinely innovative stuff too, although you're right about most of it. I think what I find so annoying is the exaggerated claims for the amount of development that has been done to create the 'magic' in pedals like this, when the reality is that it's the same circuit that you can find in something far less hyped, that they've simply copied and made a couple of very basic changes to.

I don't mind paying for good-quality assembly and some nice artwork, but I'd rather I wasn't being sold a line on how they came up with it and how good it sounds. Personally I still found this one of the most underwhelming pedals I've ever tried too - just like the original Bluesbreaker. If it needs a great amp at gig volume to sound great, maybe that's more to do with the amp than the pedal…

I probably shouldn't have tried to follow up the original comment, it's a bit like having to explain a joke .

hotpickups

BBBlues said:

ICBM said:

hotpickups said:

Surely it has some redeeming features though I guess. Internal switches for boost, OD functions stacking choices and in my case of interest the option of the 4 jacks. Also the second power out option?

Yes, if those things are useful to you - although you get four jacks and the stacking order options with two Bluesbreakers too . I just get slightly annoyed by the hype about how it's been carefully modified and improved, whereas really it's just the same circuit with a couple of extras tacked on. If it has these magic properties of somehow sounding 'like your amp but more of it', then so does a Bluesbreaker.

This is probably in danger of turning into me having a go at most of the boutique pedal world for similar reasons . I really just threw in that original comment flippantly to be honest… and I genuinely didn't know how much people seem to be prepared to pay for tatty old Bluesbreakers, so at least the next time I come across one I won't sell if for forty quid and think I've done well .

Modern times. 2 x original bluesbreakers will have set you back £300 for about the last 2-3 years at least. My KOT was less than this new.

Have I owned an original BB and compared to the KOT? Yes. Things to note:

- The jack sockets come loose on the BB?
Expected response: ok just change them?
My response: Analogman did.

- The KOT has a 3-way gain switch
Expected reponse: yeah but all you need to do that is get a soldering iron and do these 5 component changes.
My response: Analogman did.

- The gain on an original BB when maxed out is about 2-o'clock on the KOT.
Expected response: oh the pots just need changing and this also needs tweeked
My response: Analogman did.

...and so on. I could name another 5 things like this.

Do you see where I'm going?

There's no point having a go at people who are paying more than new prices second hand. It's simple supply and demand. All boutique gear is tweaked out copies of other original gear. Just accept there is a market for this, you don't have to spend your money on it.

I wasn't meaning to sound to have a go at people wanting to hike the used prices up. I just won't pay it and would rather wait until my mane comes up  

This thread could nearly go into what the J20 thread posters are saying. Is it worth it or not. At least j20 sellers don't ask way above than what one could buy a new one for. Just my thinking that's all. Or I'm just a patient skin Flint  lol

Jeremiah

The Mooer Blues Crab is meant to be a clone of the original Bluesbreaker. I'm not sure how close they actually are, but I like mine a lot. It's not completely "transparent", though, (there is a bit of bass loss and mid hump, though much less than a Tubescreamer type. It also gets brighter as you turn the gain up.)

Jota

Like all pedals, you need a couple of things to make they sound good and you need to like what they do!
First time I got my KoT clone I was a bit disapointed. I was expecting more gain.
Over time it grew on me, I learned how to work with it and, the most important thing, I started to use my amps differently.
I have the good fortune of being able to play at home at gig volumes so, the KoT for me works great. Love the voicing and it works great with any of my amps.

slacker

I have some comments regarding some of the themes on this thread...

Overpriced-I paid £360 for a King of Tone V2 AND and Klon. I dont consider that overpriced. However the current prices are bonkers. I wouldnt pay the going rates and would probably find alternatives. 

Copy-I have owned an original Bluesbreaker, own a KOT V2 and have extensively used the KOT V4. The Kot sounds nothing like a BB. The BB had a serious lack of gain and the tone control was nonexistant. The V2 is a two channel od and boost and the V4 is basically two pedals. Both KOT versions do way more than a BB. 

Meh-actually yes it is a bit meh and all the people I know who have them use other pedals more. I would probably shift mine if it wasnt so difficult to replace. However there are applications mainly low volume where other pedals really dont cope with the amp being so clean. 

I'll add one-That Pedal Show-they rave about the King of Tone or did and rave about the Klon and the Carp Diem and the Tubescreamer... Sometimes people and especially on an American forum, state how a certain item is the bestest ever just before they sell it. 

In the end it's about what makes you play better and Frank Zappa had it right. So I will. 

Pete24v

You pays your money, you make your choice.. Or something like that! 

I've had  KoT for a number of years, it's spent a few months off my board while I tried other stuff. It back on there now, and it's not coming off. 

It just seems to work brilliantly with any amp. 

I don't know nor care if it's the same as a mk1 bluesbreaker pedal.. Two of those old pedals would take up more pedalboard real estate, and power sockets on the voodoo lab. 

Someone said a thorpyfx Peacekeeper will smoke it, not quite. 

They are different beasts, the Peacekeeper is in my opinion more versatile in its eq. It's drive tone is a bit more aggressive, and with the presence control and name introduce some high end to the drive giving it a more clipped tone. 

The KoT is like simply driving the amp harder, and then hitting it with a boost. 

One of my favourite sounds is the KoT red side, being hit with the Peacekeeper, just sounds brilliant. 

If you spend time with the Peacekeeper I'd imagine you could get pretty close to one side of the KoT, but then you'd need another PK to do the other side.. There's the best part of £400 buying them new. 

My KoT a few years ago, new from Analogman was under £300 delivered and all taxes paid. 

My advice to anyone who wants to try one, do it. If you don't like it, won't loose out when you sell it. 

hubobulous

slacker said:

I'll add one-That Pedal Show-they rave about the King of Tone or did and rave about the Klon and the Carp Diem and the Tubescreamer... Sometimes people and especially on an American forum, state how a certain item is the bestest ever just before they sell it. 

Yep

bwets

They cost $245 for a new one. That's expensive but not crazy. However, the second hand prices are totally crazy!

hotpickups

bwets said:

They cost $245 for a new one. That's expensive but not crazy. However, the second hand prices are totally crazy!

Exactly my point I'm waiting til my name comes up

Heartfeltdawn

BBBlues said:

Modern times. 2 x original bluesbreakers will have set you back £300 for about the last 2-3 years at least. My KOT was less than this new.

Have I owned an original BB and compared to the KOT? Yes. Things to note:

- The jack sockets come loose on the BB?
Expected response: ok just change them?
My response: Analogman did.

- The KOT has a 3-way gain switch
Expected reponse: yeah but all you need to do that is get a soldering iron and do these 5 component changes.
My response: Analogman did.

- The gain on an original BB when maxed out is about 2-o'clock on the KOT.
Expected response: oh the pots just need changing and this also needs tweeked
My response: Analogman did.

...and so on. I could name another 5 things like this.

So could I. 

-The sound of the original BB is better?
Expected response: ...
My response: PROFIT

jellyroll

As others have said, at home volumes, I found the KOT didn't do a lot. 

kjdowd

jellyroll said:

As others have said, at home volumes, I found the KOT didn't do a lot. 

As others have said, at gig volumes, I found it did.

57Deluxe

Half the fun with pedals for me is not following the herd with my open-ended cheque book(!) but seeking out off the radar options that may not be 'on-trend'' but cheap enough to add an extra few mm's of grin when they invariably deliver something good..

I do not have one pedal that delivers universally across all gear/tone options - but I have enough options to know where to get a good tone that no-one will be able to pidgeon-hole just by ear.

juansolo

ICBM said:

BBBlues said:

All boutique gear is tweaked out copies of other original gear. Just accept there is a market for this, you don't have to spend your money on it.

Not quite all - there is some genuinely innovative stuff too, although you're right about most of it. I think what I find so annoying is the exaggerated claims for the amount of development that has been done to create the 'magic' in pedals like this, when the reality is that it's the same circuit that you can find in something far less hyped, that they've simply copied and made a couple of very basic changes to.

I don't mind paying for good-quality assembly and some nice artwork, but I'd rather I wasn't being sold a line on how they came up with it and how good it sounds.

^ This with (bakelite) knobs on.