King of Tone, is it that good?

timhulio

ICBM said:

BBBlues said:

Modern times. 2 x original bluesbreakers will have set you back £300 for about the last 2-3 years at least. 

I'd say closer to £200 than £300 going by Ebay completed prices, but I still find that crazy. It's not only a very simple circuit, it's a pretty poorly-made pedal - as you say the jacks and pots (and switch) are junk. You could easily build a much better-quality copy for far less - I'm actually surprised Joyo or one of the other Chinese companies don't seem to given the apparent demand - then it would be £30 brand new.

Interrrrresting. Do you think there's a demand for a £100 bluesbreaker that doesn't fall apart? Asking for a friend.

ICBM

Maybe. It depends how much of the value is down to it being the original pedal - did someone famous use one? (eg Jonny Greenwood and the Shredmaster.) If not and it's purely the sound, I would expect a well-made copy to sell for up to the value of an original, maybe even more since it would be better.

But I may be wrong because I tend to see things in practical terms like that and not so much in the brand/hype way that seems to sell so much gear.

timhulio

There's also the problem of making it known that this is a clone of a pedal (admittedly a discontinued one) made by a company still in existence. Probably tricky without pissing Marshall off, especially with a larger-scale production run.

djspecialist

timhulio said:

There's also the problem of making it known that this is a clone of a pedal (admittedly a discontinued one) made by a company still in existence.

Isn't that what Snouse did with the BlackBox?

IIUC the original Snouse BB is an exact clone of the Marshall BB1, whereas the Snouse BB2 adds some mods.

John_P

Re: making a bluesbreaker clone,  isn't that what snouse do with their black box?   Seems to get decent reviews and they do double versions.  At $149 for the single and $199 for the double they aren't far off the price of a kot at $249 so thats another option.  

btw which shipping option does everyone use when ordering from analogman? 

simonk

I've just dug out the invoice for my last KOT: $431 including shipping so roughly £340 at the current rate. Factor in import charges on top and I don't think the second hand prices are as ridiculous as some would like to make out.

mgaw

fwiw 

Q; Do i want a KOT?  
a;  yes

Q; do i want to wait a long time
a;  No

Q; do you worry you are paying for hype rather than performance
a; dont care

Q; have you tried one before and other similar pedals
a: yes and i thnk the KOT is the best IMO

Q; isnt it a rip off at the price they go for
a;  not in my opinion... end of

mgaw

Heartfeltdawn said:

BBBlues said:

Modern times. 2 x original bluesbreakers will have set you back £300 for about the last 2-3 years at least. My KOT was less than this new.

Have I owned an original BB and compared to the KOT? Yes. Things to note:

- The jack sockets come loose on the BB?
Expected response: ok just change them?
My response: Analogman did.

- The KOT has a 3-way gain switch
Expected reponse: yeah but all you need to do that is get a soldering iron and do these 5 component changes.
My response: Analogman did.

- The gain on an original BB when maxed out is about 2-o'clock on the KOT.
Expected response: oh the pots just need changing and this also needs tweeked
My response: Analogman did.

...and so on. I could name another 5 things like this.

So could I. 

-The sound of the original BB is better?
Expected response: ...
My response: PROFIT

but you didnt and he's made a very good job of turning a profit whilst providing a product people really want and like...there is absolutely no difference between what happens in the pedal world and many other walks of life

Heartfeltdawn

mgaw said:

but you didnt and he's made a very good job of turning a profit whilst providing a product people really want and like...there is absolutely no difference between what happens in the pedal world and many other walks of life

I wasn't making any comment on Analogman making money. It was purely that I think the KoT sounds shit compared to the BB Mk 1 and I say that after owning three KoTs. 

Heartfeltdawn

timhulio said:

ICBM said:

BBBlues said:

Modern times. 2 x original bluesbreakers will have set you back £300 for about the last 2-3 years at least. 

I'd say closer to £200 than £300 going by Ebay completed prices, but I still find that crazy. It's not only a very simple circuit, it's a pretty poorly-made pedal - as you say the jacks and pots (and switch) are junk. You could easily build a much better-quality copy for far less - I'm actually surprised Joyo or one of the other Chinese companies don't seem to given the apparent demand - then it would be £30 brand new.

Interrrrresting. Do you think there's a demand for a £100 bluesbreaker that doesn't fall apart? Asking for a friend.

Well, Boss seem to think there's a demand for some reissued pedals. The lack of a reissue Marshall Bluesbreaker Mk 1 given the way other brands like Boss and Ibanez have made some good money with reissues is baffling to me. 

BBBlues

Heartfeltdawn said:

mgaw said:

but you didnt and he's made a very good job of turning a profit whilst providing a product people really want and like...there is absolutely no difference between what happens in the pedal world and many other walks of life

I wasn't making any comment on Analogman making money. It was purely that I think the KoT sounds shit compared to the BB Mk 1 and I say that after owning three KoTs. 

I've owned 3 too, and 2 POT. I obviously disagree. Compared the BB1 it sounded a lot less compressed, less mid focuses and integrated better with my amp tone. I really liked the BB1 too though. Why own 3 if you are that certain they are that bad?

ThePrettyDamned

BBBlues said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

mgaw said:

but you didnt and he's made a very good job of turning a profit whilst providing a product people really want and like...there is absolutely no difference between what happens in the pedal world and many other walks of life

I wasn't making any comment on Analogman making money. It was purely that I think the KoT sounds shit compared to the BB Mk 1 and I say that after owning three KoTs. 

I've owned 3 too, and 2 POT. I obviously disagree. Compared the BB1 it sounded a lot less compressed, less mid focuses and integrated better with my amp tone. I really liked the BB1 too though. Why own 3 if you are that certain they are that bad?

Same reason you'd own three despite liking them - we're all serial gear freaks  

I've been disappointed by pedals before then tried them again when I've changed amp or musical style, or if I fancy a change. There are very few bad pedals, to be honest. 

Heartfeltdawn

BBBlues said:

I've owned 3 too, and 2 POT. I obviously disagree. Compared the BB1 it sounded a lot less compressed, less mid focuses and integrated better with my amp tone. I really liked the BB1 too though. Why own 3 if you are that certain they are that bad?

Because I've had a variety of amps over that time period and I just like buying things

Less compressed and less mids focused = exactly why I don't like it. At low gain, it was lacking compared to the BB Mk 1 and my then ever present Tim. It didn't stack anywhere near as well as the Tim (best stacker ever) and the high gain sound was meh. 

I'll repeat what I said earlier: I'm not the user the pedal is aimed at. You are. I look at your gear in this thread and I can imagine the stuff you play is at complete odds with the stuff I play. There are very few boutique pedals I'd stick on the board. So you and I are both right about the KoT because of how it fits in/doesn't fit in with the sound we want

UnclePsychosis

It is strange just how defensive people get about the KOT. 

Say you don't like a RAT? Whatever
Say you don't like a TS? Whatever
Say you don't like a KOT? Major butthurt

hotpickups

UnclePsychosis said:

It is strange just how defensive people get about the KOT. 

Say you don't like a RAT? Whatever
Say you don't like a TS? Whatever
Say you don't like a KOT? Major butthurt

Protecting their purchase price maybe?

clarkefan

I'm not sure who it's aimed at.  Not me for sure.  

When I hear the effect in operation (on youtube admittedly) I hear a small and to me useless difference from no effect.  Bit like using a TS the "wrong" way, with a clean amp, dull, boring. Why not just use any low gain overdrive like a TS or SD1 if that's your thing? 

No offense meant, it's just weird to me.

Wazmeister

hotpickups said:

UnclePsychosis said:

It is strange just how defensive people get about the KOT. 

Say you don't like a RAT? Whatever
Say you don't like a TS? Whatever
Say you don't like a KOT? Major butthurt

Protecting their purchase price maybe?

Or maybe, just maybe, like the Carr's, Lazy Js, KOT, etc etc they are simply very good pieces of gear that may work in your rig and for your music ?

Pete24v

clarkefan said:

 Bit like using a TS the "wrong" way, with a clean amp, dull, boring. Why not just use any low gain overdrive like a TS or SD1 if that's your thing? 

No offense meant, it's just weird to me.

Your "wrong" way is my right way, no offence taken btw.

For me that tone works, 2 out of 3 of my amps do not even have a drive channel, and i don't use the drive channel on the other amp. In fact i've not found an amp that i like really like the drive channel yet, and i've played a few in the last 27 years. For me pedals are better, and cheaper to swap around than the whole amp.

clarkefan

Thanks for understanding @Pete24v

Can I ask, what does something like a KOT offer players like yourself that isn't already immediately and flexibly available?

To me it sounds for all the world like a low gain overdrive and a boost in one pedal.

Surely overdrives and separate boosts of your choice are much more attractive?

Apparently you can even have KOTs modded to have separate pedal outputs... so it can behave like two separate pedals?

Leaving aside my personal musical tastes it's weird to me that people would want to tie an overdrive and a boost together in a single pedal, killing any choice as a result.

kjdowd

clarkefan said:

Thanks for understanding @Pete24v

Can I ask, what does something like a KOT offer players like yourself that isn't already immediately and flexibly available?

To me it sounds for all the world like a low gain overdrive and a boost in one pedal.

Surely overdrives and separate boosts of your choice are much more attractive?

Apparently you can even have KOTs modded to have separate pedal outputs... so it can behave like two separate pedals?

Leaving aside my personal musical tastes it's weird to me that people would want to tie an overdrive and a boost together in a single pedal, killing any choice as a result.

Actually there's a few overdrive plus boost pedals I like and lots of reasons to like them. Lovepedal amp11 is v similar and a great pedal. Often that type of pedal seems nicely voiced to stacked the overdrive/boost and often - as with the kot - offers some dip switch based flexibility. 

With the kot and the amp11, tho, it basically comes down to the fact that they sound great and the two sides work well together.  Totally get it if it's not your thing, but it can really work.