Great Political Leaders

bingefeller

I was thinking the other day about how great Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley were as leaders.

Take Gerry Adams - a staunch republican who became a very important man in the Northern Irish peace process.  Without his input it’s unlikely it would have been possible.

And then there’s Martin McGuinness, a former PIRA leader, who turned things around and also became a very important political figure in NI, and was also very important in the peace process - remember he was a former PIRA leader!  

Ian Paisley was probably the most charismatic politician of them all.  I work with someone who lived near him and she said he was there was something in the way that he spoke that made people listen.  He used his influence when he held his massive rallies in Belfast and his church was also very, very well attended.  Instead of passing around collection plates they used to pass round buckets because of the money people would give.  

Who do you think are the greatest leaders of our time?

Fretwired

Hard one - I agree with your choices @bingefeller given the success of the peace process.

I would say Churchill for the war period. He had some serious faults and wouldn't have been suitable for a post-war government, but he could speak and motivate people and managed to keep a creaking coalition together on the basis they hated him so got on with each other.

I liked Tony Benn as well - didn't always agree with his politics but he was bright, intelligent and right about issues on more than one occasion. Similarly I like Ken Clarke - no nonsense common sense. He never patronised anybody. And Thatcher - whatever you think of her she had what it took to lead.

Outside the UK I guess Gandhi and Mandela spring to mind.

TheBlueWolf

Churchill, for his war efforts at least.

Ghandi and Nelson Mandela stuck to their principles, which is a paradox for most leaders.

Sambostar

Adolf Hitler

historyisjunk

Clement Attlee. Not in the least charismatic which probably had a lot to do with why he was so good.

ICBM

bingefeller said:

I was thinking the other day about how great Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley were as leaders.

I fully agree about these three. Despite their originally deserved reputations as intransigent proponents of the conflict, it takes a great man to sit down and make peace with his bitterest enemies. I was sad to see how little mention was made of it when Ian Paisley died.

Martin McGuinness formerly of the IRA going to meet the Queen at Buckingham Palace - and bowing to her - who would have imagined that thirty years ago? I would also have to put the Queen herself laying a wreath at the memorial to the 1916 rebels as a part of that too.

The same could be said of not only Nelson Mandela but also F.W. de Klerk in South Africa. The peaceful end of apartheid couldn't have happened without both of them.

Mikhail Gorbachev - he tried to reform the Soviet Union and end the Cold War, and achieved a lot, although he was ultimately overtaken by events and precipitated the collapse of the USSR.

Juan Manuel Santos of Colombia for his efforts to bring their long civl war to an end.

Also Ghandi, certainly.

historyisjunk said:

Clement Attlee. Not in the least charismatic which probably had a lot to do with why he was so good.

He was our greatest Prime Minister. Most of what we take for granted in this country is down to him and the '45 Labour government. Churchill was the charismatic, inspirational war leader but he wasn't really a great PM - in fact, Attlee as Deputy PM during the war actually had more to do with the running of the country.

But it's quite hard to find that many truly great leaders, sadly. People who actually left the world a better place than they found it on a large scale...

Axe_meister

As much as I hated her Maggie Thatcher.
Bill Clinton was a great leader and the world felt like a safer place when he was in charge
Nelson Mandela of course.
Angela Merkel will go down in history as a great Leader

richardhomer

ICBM said:
Mikhail Gorbachev - he tried to reform the Soviet Union and end the Cold War, and achieved a lot, although he was ultimately overtaken by events and precipitated the collapse of the USSR.

Great call - odd his impact isn't remembered more by those of us 'of a certain age'.

The only criticism I could level at him that whatever he achieved - he didn't prevent Sting from writing 'Russians'.

nick_s

Many hate me for it, but Margaret Thatcher.  We need a leader of her calibre now.  The title Iron Lady was earned.

You need strong leaders, who see things through come thick or thin.  Weakness is not a quality we need in a leader, and sadly, very few have it now.  It remains to be seen if Theresa May does.

richardhomer

nick_s said:

Many hate me for it, but Margaret Thatcher.  We need a leader of her calibre now.  The title Iron Lady was earned.

You need strong leaders, who see things through come thick or thin.  Weakness is not a quality we need in a leader, and sadly, very few have it now.  It remains to be seen if Theresa May does.

I remember experiencing a real dichotomy in the mid to late 80s; life for me was pretty good - despite my very working class roots - but there was much from Thatcher period which felt very 'wrong'. 

With the benefit of hindsight - she was unquestionably (at least until the latter part of her premiership) a great leader - even if I felt disinclined to follow her....

I think ultimately that 'conviction' politicians are the ones who gain respect - irrrspective of whether you agree with them; Tony Benn and Ken Clarke being good examples. Interesting that neither ever led their respective parties, while many less able did....

Fretwired

historyisjunk said:

Clement Attlee. Not in the least charismatic which probably had a lot to do with why he was so good.

Good call ...

bingefeller

Axe_meister said:

As much as I hated her Maggie Thatcher.
Bill Clinton was a great leader and the world felt like a safer place when he was in charge
Nelson Mandela of course.
Angela Merkel will go down in history as a great Leader

Yes Mandela was a legend of his time, definitely one of the greats.

ICBM said:

 

Mikhail Gorbachev - he tried to reform the Soviet Union and end the Cold War, and achieved a lot, although he was ultimately overtaken by events and precipitated the collapse of the USSR.

I don't really remember Gorbachev that much, most of my memory of Russian is Putin's era. 

I was watching one of those Adam Curtis documentaries and he was talking about a man called Vladislav Surkov, who it seems has the say in what goes on in Russia - essentially he makes a lot of the snowballs and Putin throws them.  He creates confusion in Russia and no one knows what's really going on.  It was fascinating stuff. 

Motorhate

Aneurin Bevan - the only politician who’s convinced me that there was once a  politician that actually cared about the working class in this country after the war. The opposition he got to forming the Welfare State and his steadfast determination to ride roughshod over them and introduce something that I think this country can be truly proud of.
The impact on everyday people was almost instant and after watching Ken Loach’s documentary on the NHS and the doctors, the nurses and most of all the people who’s lives changed forever because of it was truly moving. What really hit home to me though was once I bought an old Sigma acoustic guitar and looked up some reviews on YouTube to see what they were like. I came across an American fella, in his 60s who was selling his Sigma to pay for his medication and medical bills that he’d incurred recently due to an illness. Hopefully, despite every Conservative government’s best efforts the NHS remains an example to the world and is also one of the world leaders in research and is responsible for many medical breakthroughs. Long may it and the memory of Mr Bevan reign!

ICBM

Motorhate said:

Aneurin Bevan - the only politician who’s convinced me that there was once a  politician that actually cared about the working class in this country after the war.

Yes - but don't forget Attlee did too. Attlee's support of him, including against many of his cabinet colleagues, was crucial. There's an extremely good biography of Attlee by Francis Beckett that's well worth reading, if you haven't.

bingefeller

Does anyone else think Saddam Hussein was a good leader?  He was brutal, but he needed to be brutal to keep control of his people.  Look at what has happened after his death, the middle east is a complete mess. 

57Deluxe

Mo Mowlam - if ever a politician was universally missed.

bingefeller

57Deluxe said:

Mo Mowlam - if ever a politician was universally missed.

Yes, I forgot about Mo also.  She was also another key figure in the peace process.  We need more figures like her.

randella

What's depressing about this thread is when you compare these examples with the self-absorbed shower of shit currently sitting on their backsides in London leaching a large chunk of my annual salary. You wouldn't need all the fingers on one hand to count the senior figures in Britain's parliament who you genuinely believe are there to make life better for the majority of us. 

Conversely, I've just had a short chat with someone from my local Labour Party who I *do* believe to be working their socks off to make a difference. The disconnect between them and the gannets 200 miles down the M6 is staggering. 

The genuine 'beasts' managed to straddle that divide; they were empowering and inspiring and there's a sore lack of them at the moment. I hate the phrase 'metropolitan elite' (so beloved of Dianne Abbott) - surely people are just trying to get on, town, country, left, right. Unfortunately senior government has never looked more elite and aloof and it's the lack of kosher, born leaders that's to blame if you ask me. 

digitalscream

nick_s said:

Many hate me for it, but Margaret Thatcher.  We need a leader of her calibre now.  The title Iron Lady was earned.

You need strong leaders, who see things through come thick or thin.  Weakness is not a quality we need in a leader, and sadly, very few have it now.  It remains to be seen if Theresa May does.

I suspect May is trying to be like Thatcher; the problem is that she sees authoritarianism as Thatcher's defining characteristic, which it really wasn't.

MrBump

^ interesting how the best left wing MPs die early... John Smith, Mo, Robin Cook...

randella

digitalscream said:

nick_s said:

Many hate me for it, but Margaret Thatcher.  We need a leader of her calibre now.  The title Iron Lady was earned.

You need strong leaders, who see things through come thick or thin.  Weakness is not a quality we need in a leader, and sadly, very few have it now.  It remains to be seen if Theresa May does.

I suspect May is trying to be like Thatcher; the problem is that she sees authoritarianism as Thatcher's defining characteristic, which it really wasn't.

May has neither the imagination to try her own thing, nor the gravitas to pull off Thatcher and do it convincingly enough to make a whole new thing out of it. 

Take two people who grew up ripping off Hendrix: me and Stevie Ray Vaughan. Who would *you* rather listen to?

I'll give you a clue: he's dead