Martin McGuinness RIP

GoldenEraGuitars

Bidley said:

Was a peaceful agenda being pushed in Ireland then?

Peace has thankfully got a hold just now, yes. It's wonderful. Pity that the media isn't picking up on that, are they...

Jalapeno

Drew_TNBD said:

EricTheWeary said:

Drew_TNBD said:

If you REALLY want to go back as far as the Normans, then you can't call it British oppression. The Normans weren't British. They were French. ANNNDDDDDDD they were requested to invade Ireland by an ousted Irish king!!

History is fun!

The Normans weren't French, they were Normans (who were southern Scandinavians). 

They were from Normandy. Which is in France. Back in the day I don't think they referred to themselves as French though. It was all much more fragmented.

The Norman invaders of Britain were direct escendants (only 3 or 4 of generations) from Rollo and his original viking settlers, who were given Normandy by Charles III (aka Charles The Simple) to defend Paris from further viking attacks.

Dominic

Jalapeno said:

Drew_TNBD said:

EricTheWeary said:

Drew_TNBD said:

If you REALLY want to go back as far as the Normans, then you can't call it British oppression. The Normans weren't British. They were French. ANNNDDDDDDD they were requested to invade Ireland by an ousted Irish king!!

History is fun!

The Normans weren't French, they were Normans (who were southern Scandinavians). 

They were from Normandy. Which is in France. Back in the day I don't think they referred to themselves as French though. It was all much more fragmented.

The Norman invaders of Britain were direct escendants (only 3 or 4 of generations) from Rollo and his original viking settlers, who were given Normandy by Charles III (aka Charles The Simple) to defend Paris from further viking attacks.

See my point above but the pacification of Charles 111 Danegelt/ Normandy gift was pointless -the Vikings reneged on the agreement within 18 months and attacked Paris by the Seine route led by Tostig (i think )

Bidley

lonestar said:

Bidley said:

Was a peaceful agenda being pushed in Ireland then?

Peace has thankfully got a hold just now, yes. It's wonderful. Pity that the media isn't picking up on that, are they...

That's not what I asked though...

AliGorie

So - Empire2 - who's is it ?.
yeah - Normandy = Norse 
DNA holds the secrets

robgilmo

lonestar said:

Bidley said:

Was a peaceful agenda being pushed in Ireland then?

Peace has thankfully got a hold just now, yes. It's wonderful. Pity that the media isn't picking up on that, are they...

Peace doesn't sell papers, and people would rather be outraged than anything else. Google srop funding hate,,an organisation worth supporting.

GoldenEraGuitars

Bidley said:

lonestar said:

Bidley said:

Was a peaceful agenda being pushed in Ireland then?

Peace has thankfully got a hold just now, yes. It's wonderful. Pity that the media isn't picking up on that, are they...

That's not what I asked though...

Bidley said:

Was a peaceful agenda being pushed in Ireland then?

Yes, a peaceful agenda is being pushed in Northern Ireland

Richardj

lonestar said:

fields5069 said:

I keep trying to come up with an analogy for a murderer being allowed to turn to politics.

He was a changed man, apparently. Ah, so that's OK then lol. Like Dirty Den but a bit dirtier.

A rapist turning to social work? Hmm. Needs work I think.

Do we REALLY have to remind you of some basic history here? Several points and paragraphs have been written in this thread by people who have a basic grasp of what happened. I'm not repeating myself for you. Scroll up and see what the police, UVF and army did to Catholics.

Well that made it perfectly OK to bomb shopping centres and town centres killing innocent women and children.

Glad that's cleared up now.

robgilmo

No of course it didn't, but if you start a war you cannot expect to suffer no casualties , Ireland is a lot closer to home than say Iraq, that's what happens in wars, tell me, why is Tony Blair still a free man?

marantz1300

for the same reason george bush is a freeman

Richardj

Did the British actually declare war? Wasn't aware of it. 

GoldenEraGuitars

Richardj said:

lonestar said:

fields5069 said:

I keep trying to come up with an analogy for a murderer being allowed to turn to politics.

He was a changed man, apparently. Ah, so that's OK then lol. Like Dirty Den but a bit dirtier.

A rapist turning to social work? Hmm. Needs work I think.

Do we REALLY have to remind you of some basic history here? Several points and paragraphs have been written in this thread by people who have a basic grasp of what happened. I'm not repeating myself for you. Scroll up and see what the police, UVF and army did to Catholics.

Well that made it perfectly OK to bomb shopping centres and town centres killing innocent women and children.

Glad that's cleared up now.

Don't be so facetious. You know very well what is being said in all of this.

The UK government made it quite clear they, by their actions, that they wanted control of a country that wasn't theirs. Did you expect the Irish to fight back with their feather dusters?

Im guessing you live in England, so you probably don't know any of what has actually happened here. I suggest you read some history about Ireland. You think it was harsh that the IRA targeted destinations in England? Of course it was and I'm not for one moment agreeing with any of the violence at all. But I think only one person has actually acknowledged, in this thread, how vile the Brits have been over the last 150 years towards the Irish.

Problem is, the Irish are close and they hit back. I think you should read back through the thread to see some of the history. 

Drew_TNBD

lonestar said:

 how vile the Brits have been over the last 150 years towards the Irish.

Why should someone born in 1984 have to even think about any of this bullshit? I wasn't around 150, 70, 60, 40, or even 35 years ago. You claimed to be impartial on page 1 of this thread, but you've been anything but.

Richardj

I think the issue is that you still appear to think that the acts of terrorism were entirely justified.

They weren't.  Terrorism cannot be justified. 

GoldenEraGuitars

Drew_TNBD said:

lonestar said:

 how vile the Brits have been over the last 150 years towards the Irish.

Why should someone born in 1984 have to even think about any of this bullshit? I wasn't around 150, 70, 60, 40, or even 35 years ago. You claimed to be impartial on page 1 of this thread, but you've been anything but.

I am impartial. I'm Scottish and I live in Northern Ireland, have done for 17 years. I'm telling you about the reality that the media doesn't. You think the BBC is going to tell you about both sides of the story?

Im also not religious... get that! So, I'm Scottish/British living in Northern Ireland and I'm not religious. Wow, yes I'm very much one sided (rolls eyes). 

The thing is, there are two sides to this. And if you didn't care you wouldn't be commenting. I'm 33, and I have an interest in how the land we live in and on came to be. If that's making me sound one sided because you think I'm giving the Brits a hard time you really need to look at my comments again. 

robgilmo

Richardj said:

I think the issue is that you still appear to think that the acts of terrorism were entirely justified.

They weren't.  Terrorism cannot be justified. 

Indeed, no terrorism can be justified, by either the Irish or the English, war by its very nature is terrorism. However we can explain why such acts happened, this isn't justifying anything , simply stating the facts around such acts and why they took place.

You appear to think that if England goes to war for some reason its absurd to think the country you go to war with wont fight back.

GoldenEraGuitars

Richardj said:

I think the issue is that you still appear to think that the acts of terrorism were entirely justified.

They weren't.  Terrorism cannot be justified. 

I've answered this point, twice. You sound like a broken record. Please read the thread again ( I know you won't because you'll see me renounce violence). 

Rocker

Drew_TNBD said:

lonestar said:

Scroll up and see what the police, UVF and army did to Catholics.

How does one shitty set of actions justify another shitty set of actions? I'd really fucking love to know that.

@Drew_TNBD, you said that you have never been to Ireland. Go to Belfast for a couple of days and spend a day or two in Derry. Do the tourist things, the bus tour, walk on the walls of Derry etc. You might get some understanding of the situation there. And material for an album perhaps?

GoldenEraGuitars

I'm going to leave this thread now. I have justified myself a number of times now and the conversation seems to have turned against me.

At lease I can leave with the knowledge that I have a deeper understanding of the history of the country. It's hard to talk to people who just reply with "yeah but they're all terrorists"....

Yawn...

Richardj

@lonestar, I'm genuinely not trying to start an argument with you.  We all have our own perspectives on these things and mine comes from the other nation involved here.  Somewhere in the middle hopefully there is a little agreement.

@robgilmo, I think referring to it as a war is still utterly wrong on every count though.