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Hi all...relative newbie to this forum here but already picking up lots of good advice, and wallet-worrying recommendations!
After years of gigging with the traditional valve amp + pedals, I (like many of us I suspect) can't help that my curiosity has been piqued by the recent flurry of activity around the Helix/Kemper/AxeFX + FRFR set-up.
I can definitely see some of the benefits and have considered taking the leap, but I still can't quite get my ahead around the FRFR option supposedly ensuring that you are hearing exactly the same sound through your monitor as is going out front through the PA. Given that there are so many differing opinions on which monitor is best (QSC/Yamaha/Atomic and the like) surely it's all a bit irrelevant if the PA speakers are something different again and will undoubtedly have their own colouration of the tone, plus whatever EQ the soundman decides is to his taste?
I really like the idea of trying this, but it seems it could be a little futile spending ages on choosing a monitor that gives you the foldback sound you're happy with if it's then going to potentially sound way different through FOH. And that's surely an element that's largely going to be beyond your control on most gigs where they have their own PA/soundman?
I'd like to give this new approach a go but need a bit more convincing really, and as yet I haven't seen any bands around my area where any guitarists are using this so I can pick their brains about it. It's not that I'm unhappy with my traditional rig, but I think it's always a good move to keep the onstage volume low and also a bonus to minimise the number of boxes and cases to cart about to gigs.
I've seen various threads around this subject but none quite clarifying the consistency of onstage/offstage sound. I think I could get used to not having an amp behind me, if I was reassured a good sound was going out front. It would be really crap to think you've got a great tone going on, only to realise it sounds pants to everyone through the PA!
Any first-hand experience (good or bad) or advice on this one would be much appreciated.
Cheers!
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Comments
Yes, all FRFR cabs will be slightly different, but as long as we're not at the bottom end of the market, the variations will actually be quite small in the grand scheme of things. Same with FOH, if you're playing somewhere with a good PA, there will be variations, but I wouldn't worry about it.
Today you are at an outdoor fesival stage, tomorrow the back room of a pub with low ceiling, the next day an exhibition centre with marble columns, walls and floor etc.
The Sound reinforcement dude will be battling his own issues with those problems in your sound and that of your stage buddies.
Thanks sweepy - that's really decent of you. May well PM you in the New Year if I'm still having this dilemma!
And it's true, there could be an element of 'overthinking' going on here!!
Went back to tube amp & cab, got fed up tweaking after 6 months. Maybe I was doing it wrong but if it wasn't coming by tweaking a few tone controls then I couldn't;t be bothered in the end.
I did find that my recorded tones direct into Logic were better than I was getting through the CLR, it was great for that.
Modelling and FRFR is hugely more flexible and accommodating for small stage and for recording and I miss that ease with which I could get good tones for recording without the need for mics, cabs etc.
The two approaches I've found work well is either going straight into the desk and using in ear monitoring, or running into the return of a valve amp and using a real cab (The JCA22H is perfect for this and costs peanuts)
John_A said: Yes, @monquixote and I play different styles.
I mainly use the 4x12 as playing Black Sabbath through couple of FRFR 1x12s looks disrespectful.
OK it wouldn't technically be a 4x12" any more, it would be a 2x12"+2x4"+2xhorn or something - but it would look the same.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
FRFR will get you nearer the amp/cab modelling tone that the MFX manufacturer had in mind when creating the models, But bear in mind that most if not all MFX units have a Global EQ adjustment to better suit line out (PA, headphones etc) or to be run at the front end of a guitar amp - and although there will be some subtle differences it will still sound good. And for gigging, these differences are probably not noticeable anyway.
And as for this business of turning cab models off if going through a guitar amp/cab, don't be put-off by 'purists' who've as often asnot probably never played the real thing anyway. Sure, if you prefer the natural sound of the cab, great, But using different cab models even with a real amp/cab can still sound good - so forget so called 'rules' and just go by the tone you like. In fact, when it comes to tone, there are no rules - who cares if it doesn't sound exactly like a 1963 Vox AC30 through a 2 x 12 cab fitted with Alnico Blues...if you like the tone and it sounds good to you, it is good! Trust your own ears and don't blindly follow conventional 'wisdom'...because it isn't always that wise!