Making a shitty backline amp sound half decent.

ChrisCox1994 · February 2017

Ok picture the scene.

I turn up to the fly gig at a hotel in the alps. Borrowed a mij strat with a hot rail humbucker in the bridge and a kaller trem (urgh) from the drummers swiss friend, guitar itself is really nice to play but the volume jump grom the SCs to the humbucker is massive!

Ive bought some pedals: tubescreamer, MIAB, carbon copy, chorus and a boost (all i could fit on a diago commuter in the hand luggage.

So the amp... its a clapped out, beer soaked roland cube 20. THE HORROR.

This thing just hates pedals, cant run it at breakup, boosted with drives then roll off for cleans - its not having it.

Bear in mind we are covering everything from soul and funk to rock and grunge...

In the end i set the thing for clean and loud and hope the amp can handle the pedals.

TS type pedal sounds ok, a passable low gain bluesy tone - nice.

MIAB (an angry charlie) sounds like dog shite quite frankly. With some drastic eqing i get it to sound half ok but the amp cant really handle all the feequencies and just starts to fart out.

The boost (digitech bad monkey) does give me enough for a solo but also makes everything sound like mush - not good.

I mull it over for a while and then remember that beer is free and noone in the audience cares about tone anyway!

We are back next weekend as well with the same setup so does anyone have some hot tips for dialling a passable tone with a small transistor amp?

Voxman · February 2017

Is there no other amp you can get access to? If not:

Use just the tubescreamer, and control your tone using the guitar volume & tone controls.
To lift the tone, and give you a volume boost, see if you can borrow an EQ pedal from somewhere.
Are you able to mike up the Cube to the PA - or connect it via the recording out/headphone jack?
The Cube has built in effects - could you get away with just using these - perhaps with the tubescreamer?

DesVegas · February 2017

Does lowering the volume on the guitar alleviate the mush?

ChrisCox1994 · February 2017

Its micd so volume isnt really the issue, there just doesn't seem to be a way of making the cube's preamp handle the gain from the angry charlie especially

ICBM · February 2017

ChrisCox1994 said:

We are back next weekend as well with the same setup so does anyone have some hot tips for dialling a passable tone with a small transistor amp?

Firstly, as you've already found you absolutely must not expect to 'push the amp' with pedals. The amp is simply a clean box to make your pedals louder. If the amp reaches overdrive itself the results are totally unpredictable but far more often than not it will be harsh, mushy, farty or a combination of all these.

So you need to work on pedals and combinations of pedals which sound good like that, and if you're using a boost and it comes at the end, you need to set your maximum volume so it still doesn't push the amp too hard. If that's too quiet then you'll need to mic up.

If your last pedal is the Bad Monkey it may be worth trying the 'mixer' output - it's really meant for DI'ing, but with some solid-state amps it actually might work better - nothing to lose by trying it. Or use it to split the signal into the amp and the PA at the same time.

If by a Cube 20 you mean the modern modelling one, use only the JC Clean setting - the others sound like shit. If it's the old orange one, use the Normal input not the overdrive…

Treat it as a challenge

. Most guitarists are far too dependent on their own gear to get 'their' sound in my opinion - if you can learn how to get a decent approximation of it through more or less anything then you're probably ready to become a bass player

.

ChrisCox1994 · February 2017

DesVegas said:

Does lowering the volume on the guitar alleviate the mush?

It makes little difference but does take away some mush.

Im running the gain very low on the charlie too which nearly sounds ok

mellowsun · February 2017

Stick to clean and loud and forget about overdrive. Add some delay and compression to help with sustain instead for your solos

simonk · February 2017

Presumably its a reasonably professional type affair to warrant flying you over there, so I'd insist they supply something a bit more professional to play through.

ChrisCox1994 · February 2017

ICBM said:

ChrisCox1994 said:

We are back next weekend as well with the same setup so does anyone have some hot tips for dialling a passable tone with a small ...

If your last pedal is the Bad Monkey it may be worth trying the 'mixer' output - it's really meant for DI'ing, but with some solid-state amps it actually might work better - nothing to lose by trying it. Or use it to split the signal into the amp and the PA at the same time.

...

Treat it as a challenge

A challenge it certainly is!

Its the newer grey version with the onboard fx etc..

I am already using the mixer out into another channel on the mixer as it was the only way to ground the amp! Was getying horrendous shocks off it through the mic otherwise - great!

Ill try the mixer out into the amp (grounding with the normal output to the mixer) and run it all quiter to not push the ampself and then just give it more out front...

Would i gain any headroom by running all the eqs at full?

ChrisCox1994 · February 2017

simonk said:

Presumably its a reasonably professional type affair to warrant flying you over there, so I'd insist they supply something a bit more professional to play through.

Yeah its a nice gig, the amp really is the only downside...

ChrisCox1994 · February 2017

mellowsun said:

Stick to clean and loud and forget about overdrive. Add some delay and compression to help with sustain instead for your solos

Not sure i could achieve the range of tones for the stuff we are covering like that and i don't have access to a Compressor sadly

ICBM · February 2017

ChrisCox1994 said:

Its the newer grey version with the onboard fx etc..

Would i gain any headroom by running all the eqs at full?

Probably not - keep the master up full and the channel volume as low as possible though, even on the JC setting. The best EQ settings are likely to be somewhere above halfway but not full up - you'll just have to experiment.

I'm usually pretty good at getting a usable sound with any amp but I certainly don't envy you with this one at gig volume!

JayGee · February 2017

What's the PA and monitoring like? If it's half decent then why not just ignore the amp and run an amp-sim-in-a-box pedal (Joyo if you're a cheapskate, AMT or Sansamp if you don't mind spending a bit more...) straight into the desk?

EricTheWeary · February 2017

Small digital amps and overdrive pedals don't mix, sometimes not even that brilliant with other pedals. It's own models are voiced to work within it's constraints so I'd leave the pedalboard at home and read a copy of the manual on the plane. Work out which of it's overdrive voices you find least offensive and switching between that and the JC clean is one button then there's one knob each for modulation, delay and reverb so if it is up on a chair in arm's reach you can change sounds in a couple of seconds and just work rivvum-lead balance from the guitar.

Maynehead · February 2017

As said already, make sure your amp is louder with all your pedals OFF, so that you are sure you're not overdriving the amp.

Use the EQ on the amp to cut out any unwanted frequencies at the end of your pedal chain.

clarkefan · February 2017

You've got a week, get your people to hustle, beg and borrow some decent gear.

I've been up in the Alps in a small pub, only choice in the area, different bands every night, booked well in advance, there's obviously a network of performing artists rotating, it's not just a casual "who's around tonight?" thing.

57Deluxe · February 2017

Get an EQ pedal and a compressor. Kill all the modulation and FX on the amp and 'drive' the tone from your wrist ie - dig-in harder for girth with the treble PUP and then use the front PUP for more airy cleans. You want chimey harmonics more than fuzzy sludge.

impmann · February 2017

Best investment I made in recent times was a Sansamp Flyrig5.
Seriously, this makes any amp sound great or sling it into the PA direct. Solves all "amp de jour" issues

John_A · February 2017

Buy somthing and post it out there or a modeller/preamp in to the PA

p90fool · February 2017

I'd just take my Zoom G3 and run it straight to the PA, and use the Cube as a monitor.

Do you have anything similar?

Teetonetal · February 2017

@ChrisCox1994 where are you? Is it Engelberg? are you here the whole week?

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Making a shitty backline amp sound half decent.

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