Equality in Sport.

Gassage · May 2017

Listening to Clare Connor on 5Live, a lady I've played cricket with and also known a long time.

Her view is that Women's cricket should be as well funded and as well renumerated as men's and that the authorities are responsible for this.

I am aghast at this.

Cricket is UNIQUE amongst team sports that a woman could theoretically play for England men's side tomorrow, on merit, if good enough. There's many female league umpires and already the top ladies are playing in prem leagues in men's cricket. (or as it should now be know, gender neutral cricket).

How more inclusive can one be?

Now, without wanting to be mysoginistic, this begs a number of q's.

1. Men's FC cricket is not financially sustainable without test cricket cash injections, so where does the money come from to pay for an even less sustainable game?
2. Should sportspeople should be renumerated based upon the attractibility of the game?
3. Should any parity therefore should be earned, and not demanded, by putting bums on seats?
4. Regarding kudos and respect, yes that should be equal. But until the money is made the money shouldn't be demanded.
5. Or should the pot be shared equally across all cricket? So, Heather Knight (Eng Women Skip) therefore earns as much as Joe Root?

This is a very interesting debate- especially as my view, is that cricket in UK needs total reformation and that the men's game is totally bankrupt.

Fretwired · May 2017

Gassage said:

Listening to Clare Connor on 5Live, a lady I've played with and also known a long time.

I beg your pardon .. ;-)

VimFuego · May 2017

pro sport is part of the entertainment industry, the income derives from those who pay to go see it. Folk acts are lucky to get a few hundred at their gigs, should they be subsidised by acts like the Rolling Stones? By all means use national funds to support grass roots sport, for both sexes, but not professional sport IMO.

axisus · May 2017

I don't think that women's sport is always on the same level as the mens - for various reasons, and I think they need to keep the upward curve of improvement going to achieve equality. For me, women's athletics and Tennis are on a par with the men, but sports like Rugby, football, cricket are a long way behind. I personally have no interest in watching women play any of them. Golf is further along, but to be honest I'm not interested in watching women's golf myself.

Gassage · May 2017

VimFuego said:

pro sport is part of the entertainment industry, the income derives from those who pay to go see it. Folk acts are lucky to get a few hundred at their gigs, should they be subsidised by acts like the Rolling Stones? By all means use national funds to support grass roots sport, for both sexes, but not professional sport IMO.

Very interesting perspective.

jellyroll · May 2017

Sure why not? As long as men's netball and men's synchronized swimming get to enjoy the same equality.

Heartfeltdawn · May 2017

Gassage said:

Listening to Clare Connor on 5Live, a lady I've played cricket with and also known a long time.
Her view is that Women's cricket should be as well funded and as well renumerated as men's and that the authorities are responsible for this.
I am aghast at this.
Cricket is UNIQUE amongst team sports that a woman could theoretically play for England men's side tomorrow, on merit, if good enough. There's many female league umpires and already the top ladies are playing in prem leagues in men's cricket. (or as it should now be know, gender neutral cricket).
How more inclusive can one be?
Now, without wanting to be mysoginistic, this begs a number of q's.
1. Men's FC cricket is not financially sustainable without test cricket cash injections, so where does the money come from to pay for an even less sustainable game?
2. Should sportspeople should be renumerated based upon the attractibility of the game?
3. Should any parity therefore should be earned, and not demanded, by putting bums on seats?
4. Regarding kudos and respect, yes that should be equal. But until the money is made the money shouldn't be demanded.
5. Or should the pot be shared equally across all cricket? So, Heather Knight (Eng Women Skip) therefore earns as much as Joe Root?
This is a very interesting debate- especially as my view, is that cricket in UK needs total reformation and that the men's game is totally bankrupt.

If cricket is totally bankrupt, then the branch that needs to be destroyed is not the county system as the T20 franchise system would so love. It's the ECB itself that needs to be reformed. They started the real greed within English cricket. The Sky money came first. That caused an explosion in wages that kept going up over a time of recession. The bidding system for international matches was utterly crooked. That brief dalliance with Stanford. The price of international tickets. The regular turnover in coloured kit designed to fleece the public even further. Their governance has been fucking rubbish.

And that greed front is shown in Australia as well...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/expanded-big-bash-plans-to-hit-viewer-figures-for-six/news-story/a7732d23f9091c7d2217e43468b1ecc0

No mention about how the Test team fits into that.

As for your questions.

1. Equally Test cricket isn't sustainable without the development that comes from first-class counties. It's a symbiotic relationship.

2. Yes. That goes for TV, sponsorship, and spectator attractability.

3. Yes it should be earned.

4. Agree.

5. No. When there's a near sellout of 24,00 at Lords for the Ireland-England men's game in the near future (according to Sky commentary this morning), what's the nearest female equivalent in England? Women's cricket needs to be commercially successful in its own right if they want that sort of cash.

On the game... well, until English cricket stops being rooted in public schools, it's fucked. Plain as. There's a shitload of people from rather good backgrounds who are as oblivious to the grassroots as the pollsters were in recent elections.

earwighoney · May 2017

Gassage said:

Listening to Clare Connor on 5Live, a lady I've played cricket with and also known a long time.
Her view is that Women's cricket should be as well funded and as well renumerated as men's and that the authorities are responsible for this.
***
This is a very interesting debate- especially as my view, is that cricket in UK needs total reformation and that the men's game is totally bankrupt.

That might her view but it won't happen.

Agree about UK cricket needing total reformation. @Gassage what do you think of the city based franchise T20 tournament due to come in?

Fretwired · May 2017

VimFuego said:

pro sport is part of the entertainment industry, the income derives from those who pay to go see it. Folk acts are lucky to get a few hundred at their gigs, should they be subsidised by acts like the Rolling Stones? By all means use national funds to support grass roots sport, for both sexes, but not professional sport IMO.

^^
Wis awarded.

This is correct. It's why Man Utd can pay the likes of Rooney £500K a week for kicking a ball around.

I'm sorry but if women want cricket to grow they'll have to get sponsors and improve the international game. England's women beat India last year in a World Twenty:20 game - they need to promote and grow competitions like this ..

Gassage · May 2017

@Heartfeltdawn

I said the FC game is bankrupt. It is, without the money from ECB.

I don't agree the game is rooted in Public Schools. The game is rooted in league cricket.

jellyroll · May 2017

If there's a genuine intention to have mixed male & female sports teams (and I don't see why that shouldn't be the case for many sports) it would have to start at school level, wouldn't it? Putting both sexes together as adults after playing in segregated teams for their whole life up to that point would surely not be ideal.

Gassage · May 2017

Fretwired said:

VimFuego said:

pro sport is part of the entertainment industry, the income derives from those who pay to go see it. Folk acts are lucky to get a few hundred at their gigs, should they be subsidised by acts like the Rolling Stones? By all means use national funds to support grass roots sport, for both sexes, but not professional sport IMO.

^^
Wis awarded.

This is correct. It's why Man Utd can pay the likes of Rooney £500K a week for kicking a ball around.

I'm sorry but if women want cricket to grow they'll have to get sponsors and improve the international game. England's women beat India last year in a World Twenty:20 game - they need to promote and grow competitions like this ..

I think there are about 10 Premiership Rugby players on £500k PER ANNUM or above.

guitars4you · May 2017

interesting thought - Ladies World Cup is taking place shortly in England - a) how many know this event is about to take place? - There is a match in Derby, so only 10 miles away from me and my wife asked would I like to go and I said no - Rightly or wrongly that speaks volume to me

I have a big issue in tennis on equality and equal prize money - In a ladies grand slam tournament, many matches only last 1 hour including the final - very few men's matches are under 3 hours especially in the last few rounds, so if you judge it on points played, or time spent on the court then women earn more - Today and for a number of years now, women's tennis has struggled to find any longevity to any players in the top 10 rankings, other than the 2 Williams system and Maria - others come and go within a year and never heard of again afterwards - E Bouchard is very good looking, and well worth watching, but on court she has struggled to keep in the top 10, but has good outside interests and contracts that detract from here time spent on court

@Gassage - As quoted above, I agree that popularity drives interest and the appropriate funding that goes with it - As you know I'm a big rugby league fan - Kevin Sinfield was probably the greatest achiever in the English came - won the lot (except the World Cup) - world player of the year, the triple grand slam etc - record points scorer ever in the UK game - yet wage was around 150K a year - A pittance based on that of Wayne Rooney - But you make your bed and you sleep in it - And I bet he'd do it all again if he could - Sport isn't equal and I don't think it should be

Heartfeltdawn · May 2017

Gassage said:

@Heartfeltdawn

I said the FC game is bankrupt. It is, without the money from ECB.

I don't agree the game is rooted in Public Schools. The game is rooted in league cricket.

And the ECB are fucked without the counties. Unless they want to take on all the contracts.

I know you don't agree. And we never will. And league cricket is not the roots of cricket.

Gassage · May 2017

Heartfeltdawn said:

Gassage said:

@Heartfeltdawn

I said the FC game is bankrupt. It is, without the money from ECB.

I don't agree the game is rooted in Public Schools. The game is rooted in league cricket.

And the ECB are fucked without the counties. Unless they want to take on all the contracts.

I know you don't agree. And we never will. And league cricket is not the roots of cricket.

OK, let's look at the current Eng side.

Rooty- Sheffield Collegiate. He went to Worksop College on a cricket scholarship. His dad, Matt, is not wealthy, but Rooty was brought up watching Yorks League cricket and MCC cricket.
Hales- Grammer School, played for Notts Forest in Nottm Prem.
Morgan- played for Finchley in Middx Prem
All the Warwickshire boys- all play Bham league and Belly played last yr.
Mark Wood- pure Durham prem
Mo Ali- as much a Bham League product as I am (but slightly better). Comp school, as per his bro's Kabbie and Kadir.
Jason Roy- OK Whitgift, but on a scholarship. (Ed's note, took @Gassage apart MCC v Whitgift School 2009. Gassage 6-0-39-1, but I was already 46 and bowling with a new ball there is a mug's game!)

And so on and so on.

Heartfeltdawn · May 2017

Because you and I have different definitions of what the cricket roots are.

Which is why I'm shutting up.

Drew_TNBD · May 2017

Women earn more in porn too. No one wants to watch ballbags.

And no one wants to watch women do sport.

Gassage · May 2017

Heartfeltdawn said:

Because you don't get what the roots of cricket are..

Which is why I'm shutting up.

The point I am making is simple; players come from the leagues these days. There are no barriers to anyone joining a league club and playing from the age of 8 onwards.

Do public school kids have better facilities? Yes, but they do in every single sport, very much including soccer.

If you are from the W Mids, Lancashire, Yorkshire (the powerhouses of cricket in UK) then it's very much a working class sport, and if you're of Asian origin, even more so.

PS: I well recall opening the batting MCC v London Schools (all state schools)

Curwin Marc and Alex Tudor. It was easily the best school attack I've ever faced, by a mile, and Curwin was a distance better than Tudor. Both 85mph plus at 18.

Reverend · May 2017

Gassage said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

Because you don't get what the roots of cricket are..

Which is why I'm shutting up.

The point I am making is simple; players come from the leagues these days. There are no barriers to anyone joining a league club and playing from the age of 8 onwards.

Do public school kids have better facilities? Yes, but they do in every single sport, very much including soccer.

If you are from the W Mids, Lancashire, Yorkshire (the powerhouses of cricket in UK) then it's very much a working class sport, and if you're of Asian origin, even more so.

PS: I well recall opening the batting MCC v London Schools (all state schools)

Curwin Marc and Alex Tudor. It was easily the best school attack I've ever faced, by a mile, and Curwin was a distance better than Tudor. Both 85mph plus at 18.

By the time you get to public school it's already too late for football. they get signed up at nursery it seems.

Fretwired · May 2017

Reverend said:

By the time you get to public school it's already too late for football. they get signed up at nursery it seems.

Public schools don't play football .. ;-)

Gassage · May 2017

Fretwired said:

Reverend said:

By the time you get to public school it's already too late for football. they get signed up at nursery it seems.

Public schools don't play football .. ;-)

At the major public schools in England Soccer > Rugby by a mile.

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Equality in Sport.

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