Mazda to make compression ignition petrol engine.....

FX_Munkee · August 2017

digitalscream said:

Why are Mazda the only company out there seriously trying to make step improvements in combustion engine design? Everybody else makes incremental improvements, whereas they do things like this and the rotary engine.

Or is it just that they don't care much about money?

(obviously, I'm not counting all the companies doing EVs)

I honestly don't know but it does seem to be there MO, also reinventing the 2 seater sports car for the current generation deserves a mention.

digitalscream · August 2017

FX_Munkee said:

digitalscream said:

Why are Mazda the only company out there seriously trying to make step improvements in combustion engine design? Everybody else makes incremental improvements, whereas they do things like this and the rotary engine.

Or is it just that they don't care much about money?

(obviously, I'm not counting all the companies doing EVs)

I honestly don't know but it does seem to be there MO, also reinventing the 2 seater sports car for the current generation deserves a mention.

Absolutely. There's a lot to respect about a company that says, "Fuck it, you know what? Let's just make something cool and interesting."

Axe_meister · August 2017

They take a risk and do something different but by no means are they the inventors

Haych · August 2017

digitalscream said:

Why are Mazda the only company out there seriously trying to make step improvements in combustion engine design? Everybody else makes incremental improvements, whereas they do things like this and the rotary engine.

Or is it just that they don't care much about money?

(obviously, I'm not counting all the companies doing EVs)

This is the same company that produced the truly awful MZR-CD-RF Turbo Diesel engines. The rotary engines they did weren't known for reliability either.

Not everything they do is magic, I'll be watching with interest when these new engines hit the road.

Axe_meister · August 2017

The rotary (wankle) engine is great in concept however there are some engineering challenges that are yet to be overcome. I.e. In order to allow for the rotors to grow (due to expansion when hot), the gap between rotor and engine housing has to be quite large, letting through a lot of oil, but also increased engine wear when the rotors are at max temperature.
Ceramic rotors are the answer but bloody expensive to make and brittle.

Axe_meister · August 2017

Haych said:

digitalscream said:

Why are Mazda the only company out there seriously trying to make step improvements in combustion engine design? Everybody else makes incremental improvements, whereas they do things like this and the rotary engine.

Or is it just that they don't care much about money?

(obviously, I'm not counting all the companies doing EVs)

This is the same company that produced the truly awful MZR-CD-RF Turbo Diesel engines. The rotary engines they did weren't known for reliability either.

Not everything they do is magic, I'll be watching with interest when these new engines hit the road.

They will sound like shit. My uncle worked with the Lotus test engine. His quote "imagine the worst sounding Diesel engine and double it"

rlw · August 2017

Axe_meister said:

The rotary (wankle) engine is great in concept however there are some engineering challenges that are yet to be overcome. I.e. In order to allow for the rotors to grow (due to expansion when hot), the gap between rotor and engine housing has to be quite large, letting through a lot of oil, but also increased engine wear when the rotors are at max temperature.
Ceramic rotors are the answer but bloody expensive to make and brittle.

Wankel

and it won Le Mans in 1991.....

Axe_meister · August 2017

It does produce great output for displaced volume but has shit fuel economy for the power output. And drinks oil at tremendous rate.

Haych · August 2017

A slight tangent maybe but I also believe motor manufacturers should be sharing technological advancement, especially in propulsion development like this, whether internal combustion engines or electric etc.

Imagine how far (no pun intended) we would have come if all major motor makers pooled their knowledge.

When they all claim to want to do the best for environmental protection, develop proprietary technology and then patent it, effectively saying to everyone else, "bugger off, it's ours, you ain't having any of this", it doesn't really make me feel they care a damn about the environment at all.

robgilmo · August 2017

The fuel to air mix is leaner so it needs less fuel than a conventional engine,my guess is they couldn't get it to work at a high RPM because the fuel mix is too lean. Its a shame that they couldn't get it to work all the way through the engines load range.

HAL9000 · August 2017

Haych said:

That's the bit my mind doesn't understand. A bang is a bang whether by compression or spark. Does some of the petrol vapour in the cylinder say "nope, not going bang, that spark wasn't big enough"? It's a chain reaction surely?
Again, not attempting cynicism, just after clarity.

With normal 'spark' ignition, because the ignition has to propagate from a single point, some fuel will remain unburnt and will exit the engine in the exhaust. Youl'll often hear racing cars 'banging' on the overrun, or see flames coming from the exhaust, due to unburnt fuel catching light in the exhaust pipes. The same shouldn't happen with compression ignition.

aord43 · August 2017

rlw said:

Axe_meister said:

The rotary (wankle) engine is great in concept however there are some engineering challenges that are yet to be overcome. I.e. In order to allow for the rotors to grow (due to expansion when hot), the gap between rotor and engine housing has to be quite large, letting through a lot of oil, but also increased engine wear when the rotors are at max temperature.
Ceramic rotors are the answer but bloody expensive to make and brittle.

Wankel

and it one Le Mans in 1991.....

...And following the usual rule, a post correcting someone's spelling MUST contain a spelling mistake of its own

menamestom · August 2017

digitalscream said:

Why are Mazda the only company out there seriously trying to make step improvements in combustion engine design? Everybody else makes incremental improvements, whereas they do things like this and the rotary engine.

Or is it just that they don't care much about money?

(obviously, I'm not counting all the companies doing EVs)

The Rotary engine is not a great example, as they were pretty bad on fuel and burned oil quite badly. Good on them for trying a new design and getting 250bhp out of a 1.3l engine, but I'm not sure it was an improvement on many 4 cylinder engines in any way.

I think Ford are making some progress, the ecoboost 1l is a good engine and the new Fiesta ST will be a 1.5 3 pot with cylinder deactivation technology. Perhaps not revolutionary but moving in the right direction, whilst improving on torque and HP.

chillidoggy · August 2017

The Wankel rotary engine in the NSU80 was a commercial disaster, warranty claims nearly bankrupted NSU, and ended up being bought by Audi, or VW or someone. I remember they made a car called the Wankelspider, too.

Imagine throwing your keys on the bar and announcing to the blonde sat next to you "Hi there gorgeous. How would you feel if I showed you my Wankelspider?"

holnrew · August 2017

chillidoggy said:

The Wankel rotary engine in the NSU80 was a commercial disaster, warranty claims nearly bankrupted NSU, and ended up being bought by Audi, or VW or someone. I remember they made a car called the Wankelspider, too.
Imagine throwing your keys on the bar and announcing to the blonde sat next to you "Hi there gorgeous. How would you feel if I showed you my Wankelspider?"

It's barely less embarrassing than doing that for any car no matter how good

rlw · August 2017

aord43 said:

rlw said:

Axe_meister said:

The rotary (wankle) engine is great in concept however there are some engineering challenges that are yet to be overcome. I.e. In order to allow for the rotors to grow (due to expansion when hot), the gap between rotor and engine housing has to be quite large, letting through a lot of oil, but also increased engine wear when the rotors are at max temperature.
Ceramic rotors are the answer but bloody expensive to make and brittle.

Wankel

and it one Le Mans in 1991.....

...And following the usual rule, a post correcting someone's spelling MUST contain a spelling mistake of its own

oops - now corrected although it wasn't, strictly speaking, a spelling mistake but the wrong word, spelled correctly :-)

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Mazda to make compression ignition petrol engine.....

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