Yes - I know valve amps are louder than solid state.
So, here’s the thing - I’ve never owned anything more than a 40w solid state amp. At present I have a 30w Peavey and I’ve gigged with it - it’s louder than drums. It fills a sizeable space with a couple of hundred punters. Never had any problems.
At some point in the future I want/need a new amp and I’m drawn to the Blackstar ID Core 40. But reading various well known shops spiel about it they talk about it as a ‘great practice amp.’ Eh? I rarely have my 30w above vol 2 for playing at home. Surely 40w is enough for most pub/club gigs?
Any thoughts or direct experience with the Blackstar?
Comments
Thanks.
Not a hope of doing even a small pub with an ID Core 40. Yes, the internal amps might deliver 20W pch (never benched one) but the speakers are ~85 dBWmtr jobs, "hi fi" if you like. It is the software emulation that makes it sound "guitar amp like" (but not everyone agrees..sup! sup!)
My son gigs cafes and bars in France with an acoustic and uses a 40. It gives him a useful boost and the sounds he wants but "they" don't want it loud.
The ID 60 and 100 are a different kettle of fish. They actually have amplifiers FAR more powerful than the monikers suggest and speakers of high sensitivity.
Now, Blackstar do not claim the amps will stand shoulder to shoulder with EVERY 60 or 100 W valve rig but they will give many a bloody good run for their money.
Once again, the sound, i.e. "voicing" of the amps might or might not suit you so you must go and have a listen.
Do you run a decent PA? If so an HT-5 micced up or DI'ed from the emulated output could be a very lightweight solution?
Dave.
I’m also drooling over YT reviews of the Orange CR120c!
https://soundcertified.com/speaker-ohms-calculator/
Hmm? Got one here. Yes, good amp and son liked it well enough* when he was here but, they are resolutely a 20 watt amp. Being effectively cathode biased they clip at just on 20W (mind you that is at 230V mains in and most of us get 240ish so, 25 even 30 watts is very possible) .
I think I have to agree with ICBM when he said the combo was all but ruined by the totally crap Rocket 50 speaker. I tried to defend the company's decision but upon reflection I agree with IC. A good 20 W valve amp is surely deserving of a good speaker because it is a power level that is so very useful. Loud enough it seems for biggish pubs against a drummer IF a good 100dB speaker is fitted. Small and light enough to lug and not vastly expensive. From a technical point of view the two EL34s each run at a very conservative 18 watts and as such should outlast a set of EL84 maybe three times over? You can also swap 'em mid gig because bias is not critical.
*Ours runs into a 55Hz Greenback so, nice for son's jazz but won't take out any windows!
Dave.
The ID series is a totally different thing as Dave said - a real giggable amp that performs far better than you would expect for a solid-state amp of the rated power. When they say "as loud as valve", just for once it's not an exaggeration. I tested an ID60 in a rehearsal room alongside a 50W Marshall, both going through a 4x12", and although the Marshall still just had the edge for presence and dynamics, there was very little in it in terms of outright volume.
A good rule of thumb is that you need about twice as much power for a solid-state amp to match the clean volume of a valve amp, and about four times as much to match the fully overdriven volume - in other words you will need about a 120W solid-state amp to match the volume of a cranked 30W valve amp, through similar speakers. This is not an exaggeration. Partly it's because an overdriven valve amp will actually put out up to twice the clean power, whereas most solid-state amps are designed to not overdrive the power stage (which sounds bad and tends to cause failure), although there are other factors as well which make valve amps perceptively louder even at the same measured power.
You also can't tell how far up an amp is from the position of the controls - most valve amps reach full clean power and go into overdrive well before the control is full up, and sometimes below halfway - so your valve amp at '3' may be putting out more than half its maximum power already. Solid-state amps are generally designed more conservatively and with more headroom on the controls because there is no point in trying to drive the power amp too hard.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
There is another reason why valve PA stages really are louder than similarly rated, even 2x rated transistors. Thermal compression. This is the effect of heating on the speaker voice coil, its DC resistance increases and so to maintain the same power into the coil you need more voltage.
SState stages are inherently* voltage limited (although they have high current capability) . So a 50W tranny amp can put 20 volts into an 8 Ohm speaker but, that's all it writes. As TC kicks in it can give no more and ACTUAL power falls.
Valves on the other hand have massive voltage headroom and can keep pumping current into the higher impedance. The net power may not be MORE than 50W but it will keep it up there. Even ignoring TC speakers have a seriously bent impedance curve! There is a big peak at resonance, generally around 70Hz and then the impedance steadily rises past the nominal say 8R past around 1kHz. Valve amps can cope with these peaks better than transistors.
*One solution is the make the SState amp capable of the voltage of one 2 or 3 times nominal power. This has dangers however for both the amp and speaker and requires some smart design and rather aggressive load protection which has to be "music shaped".
Dave.
Have you considered the Boss Katana?
I've got the Orange CR60C (the CR120Cs weaker sibling) and it's a very capable piece of kit. However, since buying a Katana 50, the Orange doesn't often get a look in. The Katana is properly loud and will easily keep up with a tame drummer at the 25W setting. Never used it against a neanderthal tub thumper, but suspect that the 50W setting would do it in most small gigs. Also, the 0.5W setting is great for home practice.
Lately it’s been doing service as house amp for a jam night which means I’ve got to hear it from out front and I’ve been even more impressed...
One thing Blackstar have NOT done (and I understand why, huge commercial gamble) is put all the versatility of the digital amps in a box with a valve output stage (and maybe valve PI?) .
30-40W from Octals seems to be a good compromise re ass kick to luggabliity?
Of course the purist cork sniffers are going to scream "HYBRID! HYBRID!" I would rather say "best of both worlds and a foot in both camps"?
Dave.
What's up with the Peavey 30 watt amp ? if it's something like a classic 30 then that and a few pedals is a good giging rig
There's so many factors involved when talking about how many watts you need such as ?
ol Skool giging ..... non mic'ed turn up amp loud enough for amp alone to fill venue .....generally any valve amp 30 watts up be fine. Very simple and quick to set up but if you gig a lot on this format your probably damage your ears.
Modern way to gig .... literally any amp of any power, mic'ed up or emuated output into PA, foldback via IEM's. I did hundreds of gigs on Blackstars little HT5 like this. A tip for any HT5 owner, put a boost in the effects loop to raise the level and use something a large 1 x 12" cab with a sensitive Celestion speaker. It makes that amp a totally different animal
Is it country music or death metal ? some of the bands I've worked with wouldn't use anything less than 100 watt valve amps. Other bands play so quiet they don't need anything like that power
You have reminded me Danny! The HT-20 benefits greatly I am told by a boost in the FX loop and if you use a G-7 pedal and put the boost at 6dB or so at 2-3kHz so much the better.
Dave.