Fender Supersonic hiss update: too few mu?

DannyP · July 2019

I picked up a 2nd hand Fender Supersonic 22 yesterday and it's just the ticket for my needs.

But it's noisy.

My ISP Decimator noise gate in the effects loop totally cures it, but it's biting off the reverb trails.

So the reverb comes before the effects loop? Is that standard? Wouldn't it be more sensible to have it go after the loop if possible?

So I guess my options are:

1: some sort of mod to lower the noise?
2: some sort of mod to put the reverb stage after the loop?
3: use a reverb pedal in the loop after the gate.

Does anyone have any thoughts? Thanks in advance!

WiresDreamDisasters · July 2019

Pedal tingz m8.

DannyP · July 2019

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Pedal tingz m8.

I was trying to avoid an extra pedal, and I like the reverb on the amp, but might have to...

ICBM · July 2019

It depends on the amp. I would guess it's more common to have the reverb before the loop, since it's easier to implement if the loop is a typical after preamp/before power amp type - although it would be more logical from an effects-order point of view to have it afterwards.

Modding the amp to swap them is unlikely to be simple, if feasible at all.

Is the noise from the amp from just the overdrive channel?

DannyP · July 2019

The noise is the same on both channels and solved with the NG in the loop for both channels.

ICBM · July 2019

DannyP said:

The noise is the same on both channels and solved with the NG in the loop for both channels.

Is it related to the reverb itself? It must be coming from somewhere after the overdrive channel if it's not worse on that than the clean channel.

deacci · July 2019

Had a friends doing something similar. the noise disappeared if some weight was applied to.the top.of the head. So we took it apart assuming some sort of loose ground connection. After some digging it turned out to be a damaged coil in the reverb tank. Try unplugging the reverb tank and see if the noise goes away .

DannyP · July 2019

Many thanks I'll try that!

DannyP · July 2019

I've been trying to upload a vid to Imgur to demonstrate, but couldn't get it to work.

DannyP · July 2019

deacci said:

Had a friends doing something similar. the noise disappeared if some weight was applied to.the top.of the head. So we took it apart assuming some sort of loose ground connection. After some digging it turned out to be a damaged coil in the reverb tank. Try unplugging the reverb tank and see if the noise goes away .

Disconnecting the reverb tank makes no difference to the noise level.

I think it might just be a noisy amp due to something that both channels share (but not the reverb tank) prior to the loop.

That seems to be the experience of a few different users from what I read online. Some people report improvements by replacing some of the caps.

DannyP · August 2019

After watching this vid, I thought I'd try a 12AY7 (45mu) in v4 instead of a 12AX7 (100mu):

I was sure I had one in my valve draw, turns out I didn't.

I tried a sovtek 5751 (70mu) and a GE 12AT7 (60mu) but could barely hear the reduction in hiss.

Next I tried a Bugle Boy 12AU7 (18mu) and it was great! Almost silent running. Amp is not as loud and the gain feels slightly different, but I like it. Still enough volume for my 5 piece band, I'm sure.

I'm just after reassurance that I'm not causing any harm with this valve substitution? And that I won't be going through a 12AU7 per week!?

Is it worth sourcing a 12AY7 to see if it's any good?

tone1 · August 2019

Every Supersonic 22 I’ve tried has hissed like a bag of angry snakes

ICBM · August 2019

Be careful with the 12AU7 - it will be drawing a lot more current and could overload the plate resistors. Ideally you need to measure the voltage drop across them and calculate the power dissipation.

In some of their modern amps Fender have used such small resistors that even a 12AY7 can blow them - including the Bassman RI, which is doubly frustrating as the *original* Bassman was intended to use one.

RiftAmps · August 2019

ICBM said:

Be careful with the 12AU7 - it will be drawing a lot more current and could overload the plate resistors. Ideally you need to measure the voltage drop across them and calculate the power dissipation.

In some of their modern amps Fender have used such small resistors that even a 12AY7 can blow them - including the Bassman RI, which is doubly frustrating as the *original* Bassman was intended to use one.

+1 on this. I wouldn't use anything other than an AX7 unless you're absolutely sure the amp can run something else.

Also, by using a lower gain valve you're not actually fixing the problem, just covering it up with a band aid.

uncledick · August 2019

Reverb hiss pretty much comes as standard on the SS22. In concept , it's a fantastic amp but the hiss issues as well as the weird non-linearity and response at low to medium volume levels meant mine had to go. Crank it up to pub gig volume and it's a cracker.

DannyP · August 2019

Ok fair enough

Any opinions on the other mod in the you tube clip?

Anyone tried it?

stylesforfree · October 2022

DannyP said:

Ok fair enough

Any opinions on the other mod in the you tube clip?

Anyone tried it?

Hey Danny, do you still have your supersonic 22? I got one last month and its also quite noisy, mine is a 2019 model so in theory it should have had all the tech-fixes in place.....alas.

DannyP · October 2022

Hi @stylesforfree, yes I do.

The V4 valve swap does help, as does a noise gate in the loop, although that does come before the onboard reverb meaning gated reverb. A reverb pedal in the loop after the gate solves this, but that's extra faff/expense etc.

I tend to use my 5-watter at home and gig/rehearse with the SS22 at volumes where the noise isn't an issue. I'm using it mostly clean with all pedals in the front end nowadays, and it really doesn't bother me that much.

stylesforfree · October 2022

@DannyP gotcha, thanks, how much does the 12AU7/12AT7 Lower the reverb level?.
And what 5 watt amp do you use?

DannyP · October 2022

I just checked and it's a 12AY7 that I have in there at the moment, which apparently is a bit risky, see above. No effect on the reverb I don't think.

My 5 watt amp is one I made myself from an Ampmaker kit.

Littlejonny · October 2022

Like others here, I had one, loved the tones, hated the hiss. Regret selling it. They’re useless for home use if you can’t ignore the hiss. In a band, they’re great. I don’t think you can mod the hiss away.

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Fender Supersonic hiss update: too few mu?

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