Audio interface suggestions needed! (Update: RME interface has arrived!)

Branshen · August 2019

I'm looking to upgrade my 1st Gen Focusrite 2i4, which I've made many recordings on since I got it 5-6 years ago.

The abundance of options today is dizzying, but I have a few requirements and a few preferences to narrow down my search.

Requirement

4 mic pres/instrument/line level inputs (Can be 2 mic pres + 2 inst/line inputs, but crucially, I want to have 4 tracks ready to go at any time)
Line level hardware inserts for external sound processors
Low latency (the faster, the better!)

Preference

On-board DSP effects to effect direct mix (i.e. add reverb directly to monitor feeds for vocal recordings)

I've had a look around and came up with a shortlist, but they are all lacking in one way or another

Focusrite 18i8 (no dedicated inserts, but it appears to be possible to set it up by using routing software; no onboard DSP effects)
Audient iD44 (no onboard DSP effects; not entirely sure about the JFET DI input and the effect on the sound, as I use an amp modeller and am quite happy with my direct sound already)
Steinberg UR44 (no hardware inserts and is abit dated)

Any suggestions?

Stuckfast · August 2019

How much do you want to spend, and are you limited to USB or is Thunderbolt also an option?

A few more you might look at are the Tascam 208i, RME Babyface Pro, MOTU Ultralite AVB and the JoeCo Cello. The Apogee Element 46 might also be an option if you are using a Mac with Thunderbolt.

The JoeCo is the only interface I can think of in this category with hardware inserts, but it's not cheap.

Branshen · August 2019

Stuckfast said:

How much do you want to spend, and are you limited to USB or is Thunderbolt also an option?

A few more you might look at are the Tascam 208i, RME Babyface Pro, MOTU Ultralite AVB and the JoeCo Cello. The Apogee Element 46 might also be an option if you are using a Mac with Thunderbolt.

The JoeCo is the only interface I can think of in this category with hardware inserts, but it's not cheap.

Around 500 pounds would be the upper limits of my budget.. Unfortunately, I'm on Windows (Lenovo y700 to be exact) and use USB.

Thanks for the suggestions. Some of those options, I've not heard of.

Stuckfast · August 2019

The Roland interfaces are worth a look too, though their range is a bit confusing. Either the Rubix or the Octa Capture might suit?

Branshen · August 2019

Stuckfast said:

The Roland interfaces are worth a look too, though their range is a bit confusing. Either the Rubix or the Octa Capture might suit?

Thanks! Will look into them.

octatonic · August 2019

Make sure you look at input and output operating level if you want to use hardware on insert.

Some units will have an intentional mismatch between output level and input level which will mean you have to compensate for this in order to get a unit gain hardware IO.

For instance, the Focusrite Red 4Pre and Red 8Pre have a 9db mismatch between input and output operating level, so if you had a hardware compressor that you wanted to use on insert then you'd have to use a trim plugin to compensate.
This can be a real pain in the ass.
The Focusrite Red 16Line has identical input and output operating level so you can simply instantiate an IO plugin and have the input and output level match.

Branshen · August 2019

octatonic said:

Make sure you look at input and output operating level if you want to use hardware on insert.

Some units will have an intentional mismatch between output level and input level which will mean you have to compensate for this in order to get a unit gain hardware IO.

For instance, the Focusrite Red 4Pre and Red 8Pre have a 9db mismatch between input and output operating level, so if you had a hardware compressor that you wanted to use on insert then you'd have to use a trim plugin to compensate.
This can be a real pain in the ass.
The Focusrite Red 16Line has identical input and output operating level so you can simply instantiate an IO plugin and have the input and output level match.

Interesting. I can imagine this being annoying. Will bear this in mind. Thanks!

Cirrus · August 2019

I rate the ID22 I've got. Low latency performance isn't *quite* as good as the RME stuff, but the sound is good, the preamps are nice sounding and the form factor is pretty sweet with the volume knob/ monitoring controls. And the insert is a simple post-preamp send/return. Audient make mixing desks, so you expect them to not fuck up the signal path too much.

I'm sure the ID44 is even better.

As for the JFET input... every option has a sound, but I think you'd need to drive it pretty insanely before it'd actually be distorting or changing things in an audible way. I think the principle is that it has a better impedance curve for instruments, and is less likely to bugger things up that a cheap op-amp.

WiresDreamDisasters · August 2019

Maybe you could try an Antelope Audio interface? I tried the Zen Tour once. It was quite cool.

Or a UA Apollo Twin, the USB one.

Branshen · August 2019

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Maybe you could try an Antelope Audio interface? I tried the Zen Tour once. It was quite cool.

Or a UA Apollo Twin, the USB one.

These are interesting but are out of my budget.. I could stretch to an Apollo, but it only has 2 inputs so I'm not really increasing my input count from the current 2i4..

Cirrus said:

I rate the ID22 I've got. Low latency performance isn't *quite* as good as the RME stuff, but the sound is good, the preamps are nice sounding and the form factor is pretty sweet with the volume knob/ monitoring controls. And the insert is a simple post-preamp send/return. Audient make mixing desks, so you expect them to not fuck up the signal path too much.

I'm sure the ID44 is even better.

As for the JFET input... every option has a sound, but I think you'd need to drive it pretty insanely before it'd actually be distorting or changing things in an audible way. I think the principle is that it has a better impedance curve for instruments, and is less likely to bugger things up that a cheap op-amp.

The RME babyface pro looks really good, but again, too pricey.. What latency do you get on your ID22? Are u on a PC or a Mac?

oaf · August 2019

Juno are doing the Babyface Pro for £598. You might get a bit off if you contact them via their chat function on the website (ask them for their best price and they'll generally move a bit). I've found mine to be very solid indeed: clean, low latency and TotalMix is very handy too. £90 or so over budget perhaps, but recommended

Branshen · August 2019

oaf said:

Juno are doing the Babyface Pro for £598. You might get a bit off if you contact them via their chat function on the website (ask them for their best price and they'll generally move a bit). I've found mine to be very solid indeed: clean, low latency and TotalMix is very handy too. £90 or so over budget perhaps, but recommended

Hmmm. I see it in stock for £498, and not £598 because I'm outside of the UK and don't get charged VAT. This is going to be hard to resist..

https://www.juno.co.uk/products/rme-babyface-pro-audio-midi-interface/571284-01/

octatonic · August 2019

No brainer, frankly.

Branshen · August 2019

octatonic said:

No brainer, frankly.

thanks

octatonic · August 2019

Branshen said:

octatonic said:

No brainer, frankly.

thanks

I'm actually considering one myself now at that price.
I need a small portable interface with great driver support and also outside the EU.
Thomann has these for £650 at the moment.

Branshen · August 2019

octatonic said:

Branshen said:

octatonic said:

No brainer, frankly.

thanks

I'm actually considering one myself now at that price.
I need a small portable interface with great driver support and also outside the EU.
Thomann has these for £650 at the moment.

I'll sleep on it but I have a feeling that I am just delaying the inevitable.. Will even be cheeky and ask for a discount as suggested by @oaf

oaf · August 2019

I find Juno pretty helpful and there's no shame in asking nicely

They're probably not making much on it at that price but you never know! As @octatonic says you'll find the drivers to be very good. There are some decent tutorials explaining TotalMix on YouTube which you might find helpful.

Babyface Pro + DT 1990 Pros are working very nicely together as a small setup for me. Only thing I can think of to be aware of is that MIDI uses a(n included) breakout cable, however it works fine and I've had absolutely no issues with it so it's not a major negative anyway.

Let us know what you decide!

Branshen · August 2019

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2017/12/15/case-study-technical-testing-of-audio-interfaces

One of the main selling points of the babyface pro for me is the ultra-low latency, but looking at this table, it does seem that the Focusrite technology (2nd gen scarlett) has caught up. The difference is marginal with the scarlett 6i6 even beating the babyface pro at 96KHz.

With ultra low latency, arguably there is no need for onboard DSP to process vocals for monitoring as you could just slap it on the track and monitor with the effect added in the DAW. Food for thought..

And now my head has been turned by the ZOOM UAC-8..

Stuckfast · August 2019

That's a bit of a weird test in my opinion. What's particularly odd is that they don't state whether they did the latency tests on Windows or Mac OS. I presume it was the latter since the Apogee doesn't have Windows drivers, in which case the latency results are irrelevant to your needs as a Windows user.

The key point here is that Mac OS has a built-in USB Core Audio driver which is actually quite good and makes life easy for developers, so many audio interfaces use that on Mac OS (including the Audiofuse, the JoeCo Cello, Antelope's USB interfaces and, I think, the Audient interfaces). Most of those developers also use a generic third-party driver on Windows, usually the Thesycon one. Unfortunately, this is crap, or at least it always used to be (I haven't tested a Windows interface for a while as I no longer have an up-to-date machine) and delivers poor low-latency performance on the same interfaces that do quite well on Macs.

If you have a fast enough computer and you run at a high sample rate you can get the measured round-trip latency to look OK on most interfaces -- but what that doesn't tell you is how much of a CPU hit you'll take in doing so. The beauty of RME's drivers is that they offer stable low-latency performance without loading down the CPU too much. Having said that, the newer Focusrite USB driver is also very good.

If you want proper evaluation of low-latency performance on Windows you are much better off looking at Vin Curigliano's DAWbench stats.

octatonic · August 2019

Branshen said:

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2017/12/15/case-study-technical-testing-of-audio-interfaces

One of the main selling points of the babyface pro for me is the ultra-low latency, but looking at this table, it does seem that the Focusrite technology (2nd gen scarlett) has caught up. The difference is marginal with the scarlett 6i6 even beating the babyface pro at 96KHz.

With ultra low latency, arguably there is no need for onboard DSP to process vocals for monitoring as you could just slap it on the track and monitor with the effect added in the DAW. Food for thought..

And now my head has been turned by the ZOOM UAC-8..

Yes but once you start stacking effects up over the course of a project latency will be increased.

I still wouldn't buy an interface without hardware monitoring unless it is based around Pro Tools HDX.

stratman3142 · August 2019

octatonic said:

Branshen said:

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2017/12/15/case-study-technical-testing-of-audio-interfaces

One of the main selling points of the babyface pro for me is the ultra-low latency, but looking at this table, it does seem that the Focusrite technology (2nd gen scarlett) has caught up. The difference is marginal with the scarlett 6i6 even beating the babyface pro at 96KHz.

With ultra low latency, arguably there is no need for onboard DSP to process vocals for monitoring as you could just slap it on the track and monitor with the effect added in the DAW. Food for thought..

And now my head has been turned by the ZOOM UAC-8..

Yes but once you start stacking effects up over the course of a project latency will be increased.

I still wouldn't buy an interface without hardware monitoring unless it is based around Pro Tools HDX.

I'd assumed (possibly mistakenly) that a VST didn't add latency if it reported 0/0 spls in Reaper. I haven't noticed an issue with my Zoom UAC-2 when stacking VSTs reporting 0/0 spls.

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