Mini Mixers and acoustic preamps

BigLicks67 · February 2020

Is a mini mixer such as this :
https://www.thomann.de/gb/mackie_mix5.htm
a viable alternative to buying a standard acoustic preamp such as the K&K pure preamp or LR Baggs Para DI?

TheBigDipper · February 2020

What's the pickup in the guitar? Passive, like a Pure Mini or active with a battery?

BigLicks67 · February 2020

TheBigDipper said:

What's the pickup in the guitar? Passive, like a Pure Mini or active with a battery?

I've got a pure mini in one and an active in the other.

andrewjw · February 2020

With both active and passive sources you are probably best off with a very flexible preamp that covers all bases..

I've had one of these for about 10 years ... https://www.radialeng.com/product/pz-pre ....simple to use , flexible re sources and sounds wonderful...also virtually bombproof.

I also have a https://www.headwaymusicaudio.com/product/edb-2/ which is very similar in many respects but is way more fiddly to use IMHO.

I'm sure there are other examples out there..

BigLicks67 · February 2020

andrewjw said:

With both active and passive sources you are probably best off with a very flexible preamp that covers all bases..

I've had one of these for about 10 years ... https://www.radialeng.com/product/pz-pre ....simple to use , flexible re sources and sounds wonderful...also virtually bombproof.

I also have a https://www.headwaymusicaudio.com/product/edb-2/ which is very similar in many respects but is way more fiddly to use IMHO.

I'm sure there are other examples out there..

Both a bit too pricey for me I am afraid.

TheBigDipper · February 2020

BigLicks67 said:

TheBigDipper said:

What's the pickup in the guitar? Passive, like a Pure Mini or active with a battery?

I've got a pure mini in one and an active in the other.

OK. I use Pure Minis and they work best if they see an impedance of 1megOhm on the input jack you plug into. So, the Pure Mini preamp helps the guitar sound great. So does a Tech 21 Flyrig Acoustic. My Presonus audio interface does not, and without one of the former in the path first, the guitar sounds a bit dull and muffled. Your guitar with the active pickup is less fussy, I'm sure. People also seem to get good results from modellers - I've experimented with an HX FX before buying and liking the Flyrig. The HX would also permit different presets for the different signal levels in your two guitars.

maltingsaudio · February 2020

No simply not enough on the EQ section to make any significant difference. Acoustic pre amps tend to have a lot more features than bass and treble adjustments

maltingsaudio · February 2020

If it’s a budget thing you would be better served getting a graphic pedal such as this for half the price https://www.gak.co.uk/en/behringer-eq-700-graphic-equalizer/1004?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxuv8i-Oz5wIVwrHtCh1V7QspEAQYASABEgKIcfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds but it would do what the mackie does and more (although personally wouldn’t use either)

TimmyO · February 2020

Those behringer EQ pedals are noisy. Also they break.

MichaelWatts · February 2020

I can appreciate the temptation but it doesn't look like that would have the EQ power you'll need for acoustic guitar.

BigLicks67 · February 2020

Okay thanks all. Looks like a K&K Pure preamp is the way to go.

Danny1969 · February 2020

Just about all the guys I work with just DI the acoustics straight in the desk, most acoustics have some kind of pre amp but even one guy with just a basic piezo pickup sounds ok straight into the desk as long as his lead isn't too long

TheBigDipper · February 2020

BigLicks67 said:

Okay thanks all. Looks like a K&K Pure preamp is the way to go.

FWIW... the one I own has the XLR connection and can take phantom power from the desk. Sounds fab!

lincolnblue · February 2020

I've been looking at acoustic preamp pedals lately. I have a Breedlove and. Faith which both have active pickups with some degree of eq shaping. How much difference will an acoustic preamp Pedal further aid my sound? Problem is they are so expensive. Would a TC Body Rez be better?

maltingsaudio · February 2020

lincolnblue said:

I've been looking at acoustic preamp pedals lately. I have a Breedlove and. Faith which both have active pickups with some degree of eq shaping. How much difference will an acoustic preamp Pedal further aid my sound? Problem is they are so expensive. Would a TC Body Rez be better?

We need more information to answer this as the answer depends on where the signal is ending up. Are we talking about into a PA or a DAW? The basic sound of a guitar going into an ampification source ie a PA is one thing, how it sounds at the other end is something else. An acoustic guitar going into a guitar amp, no matter how good the processing you put between it will not sound as natural as an acoustic guitar going into a full range quality PA or acoustic amp

No matter how expensive and good quality your guitar is and the amount of processing you do to it
, if you listen to the results on crap speakers it will sound crap!

lincolnblue · February 2020

maltingsaudio said:

lincolnblue said:

I've been looking at acoustic preamp pedals lately. I have a Breedlove and. Faith which both have active pickups with some degree of eq shaping. How much difference will an acoustic preamp Pedal further aid my sound? Problem is they are so expensive. Would a TC Body Rez be better?

We need more information to answer this as the answer depends on where the signal is ending up. Are we talking about into a PA or a DAW? The basic sound of a guitar going into an ampification source ie a PA is one thing, how it sounds at the other end is something else. An acoustic guitar going into a guitar amp, no matter how good the processing you put between it will not sound as natural as an acoustic guitar going into a full range quality PA or acoustic amp

No matter how expensive and good quality your guitar is and the amount of processing you do to it
, if you listen to the results on crap speakers it will sound crap!

Valid points - the acoustic is going into a PA rather than a DAW. I use my pedalboard so have rever, tremolo etc but when all effects are off, I want to be able to get rid of the normal piezo sound (not in a position to put a new pickup in). Part of me says to look for a pedal preamp but then as they're so expensive. I don't know if it's actually worth it.

ICBM · February 2020

lincolnblue said:

Valid points - the acoustic is going into a PA rather than a DAW. I use my pedalboard so have rever, tremolo etc but when all effects are off, I want to be able to get rid of the normal piezo sound (not in a position to put a new pickup in). Part of me says to look for a pedal preamp but then as they're so expensive. I don't know if it's actually worth it.

If you can deal with the size, look for a second hand Boss AD-8. Also ignore the stupid prices some dealers seem to be asking for them, they don't sell for anything like that in the real world -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boss-AD-8-Acoustic-Guitar-Processor-Pedal/352885696640

They're a very useful box for a non-purist - they have the usual tuner, EQ and anti-feedback, but also acoustic resonance simulation, onboard reverb (but thankfully no chorus, unlike most Boss acoustic preamps!) and a specific 'electric guitar amp' output as well as the usual balanced and unbalanced outputs. None of the sounds will win any prizes for accuracy no matter how good a pickup system you put through them, but that isn't why I have one - it's for all the situations where I might have to improvise and get a *usable* sound through whatever PA/amp etc is available.

... bearing in mind that no pickup system *ever* sounds as good as even quite a basic mic in front of the guitar.

lincolnblue · February 2020

ICBM said:

lincolnblue said:

Valid points - the acoustic is going into a PA rather than a DAW. I use my pedalboard so have rever, tremolo etc but when all effects are off, I want to be able to get rid of the normal piezo sound (not in a position to put a new pickup in). Part of me says to look for a pedal preamp but then as they're so expensive. I don't know if it's actually worth it.

If you can deal with the size, look for a second hand Boss AD-8. Also ignore the stupid prices some dealers seem to be asking for them, they don't sell for anything like that in the real world -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boss-AD-8-Acoustic-Guitar-Processor-Pedal/352885696640

They're a very useful box for a non-purist - they have the usual tuner, EQ and anti-feedback, but also acoustic resonance simulation, onboard reverb (but thankfully no chorus, unlike most Boss acoustic preamps!) and a specific 'electric guitar amp' output as well as the usual balanced and unbalanced outputs. None of the sounds will win any prizes for accuracy no matter how good a pickup system you put through them, but that isn't why I have one - it's for all the situations where I might have to improvise and get a *usable* sound through whatever PA/amp etc is available.

... bearing in mind that no pickup system *ever* sounds as good as even quite a basic mic in front of the guitar.

I've seen them and thought they looked good. Have you ever tried the TC Bodyrez?

ICBM · February 2020

lincolnblue said:

I've seen them and thought they looked good. Have you ever tried the TC Bodyrez?

No, but I have an aversion to anything made by TC for reasons of reliability. (Apart from the Polytune Clip.)

p90fool · February 2020

I bought one of these last summer, it's a great bit of kit, natural sounding but with the flexibility to run into crappy little PAs you often find at open mics.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/zoom_ac3_acoustic_guitar_fx.htm

crunchman · February 2020

ICBM said:

lincolnblue said:

I've seen them and thought they looked good. Have you ever tried the TC Bodyrez?

No, but I have an aversion to anything made by TC for reasons of reliability. (Apart from the Polytune Clip.)

I've got a BodyRez. It hasn't broken yet - although I too have had all kinds of problems with reliability with other TC products.

It definitely improves the sound of a piezo. At £50 second hand, it wasn't too much money down the drain if it broke.

Boss brought out the AD-2 a couple of months after I bought the TC. If I had known that was on the way, I would have waited and got that. That has the "Acoustic Resonance" as well, but not the bells and whistles of the bigger Boss. As well as Boss reliability, it's also an improvement on the TC as it has balanced out (by way of a TRS jack) - so you can have a balanced signal direct to a PA without a DI box.

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