1st Time Kit Build about to start, have some questions

Cano · June 2020

Evening All,

Last week I gave in to the the impulse pushing me to try a kit build. I ordered a LP kit with flamed maple veneer from Coban guitars and a few Stunning Stains from Crimson and now I'm planning the build.

I'm going to aim for a PRS style blue burst like this (https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/200617359430025--prs-se-hollowbody-ii-piezo-peacock-blue-smokeburst) but have ordered a few colours as I may try to add some purple.

I've watched loads of videos of people doing similar finishes and want to check that the process I have in mind is the correct way to go about it, hoping that the collective knowledge here will spot my mistakes before I make them.

Current plan is:

Sand the top with 400 grit, then 600 grit.
Wipe down with a damp cloth
Apply 1st coat(s) of black stain
Sand the black coat down with either 400 grit or 240 grit Wet & Dry (struggling to find any 320 at a reasonable price) to leave the accented pattern.
Wipe down the surface with something that won't raise the grain again - Need advice here as the USA videos show people using Naptha. I've gather that Panel Wipe, Brake Cleaner and Lighter Fluid are fundamentally the same thing, IS something like 5l can of Holts Brake Cleaner the way to go for this?
Apply the first blue coat (I've done some test patched on the veneer sample that Coban supply, the Blue Phthalo on top of sanded black looks rather similar to that PRS finish)
Sand back again, Wipe down, add another coat of the same blue
Repeat with whatever colour layers I end up settling on.

For the clearcoat stage, sand the final layer of colour stain with 600 grit. Should I also use 00 or 0000 wire wool or is that only used later?
Apply Tru Oil GunStock finish - will I need to thin this out, if so what should I use?
Wipe excess from the surface after a few mins and leave to dry/cure.
Wire wool
Another coat of Tru Oil......wire wool, repeat until I have the clearcoat I need/want. Final finish of gradually finer grades of soaked Wet/Dry.

For the back and the neck I'm just going for black, so will repeat the same process just without the colour mixing.

My initial assumption was to do all this before gluing the neck, but I've seen some people glue the neck as the very first part of their build. Which would you recommend first, the staining process or the gluing?

mrn1989 · June 2020

I'll be following this one, I have finished one guitar by spring but my patience wasn't good enough so rushed it and didn't get quite the result I'd hoped for. I have a project going on at the minute and am currently grain filling in prep for the spraying stage.

https://i.imgur.com/Fjf9bmv.jpg

This is the paper I've been using, they have a 320 at a good price: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starcke-Matador-sandpaper-Weight-sheets/dp/B01ITGE0SO/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=sandpaper+matador&qid=1593089256&sr=8-10

Cano · June 2020

Grain Filler. That's my other question.

Should I use grain filler on the back of the body and neck before staining ? What's the reason for using grain filler in general, aesthetic only or functional protection of the wood?

mrn1989 · June 2020

Cano said:

Grain Filler. That's my other question.

Should I use grain filler on the back of the body and neck before staining ? What's the reason for using grain filler in general, aesthetic only or functional protection of the wood?

Grain filler is necessary for a flat finish basically, some people prefer the open grain look and feel its more of a preference

Cano · June 2020

Good good. That's what I'll do for the rest of the body and the neck then.

Cano · July 2020

Update time.

https://imgur.com/gallery/qc6Qbl9

I have now got the front stain done. I know my next steps are to fill the grain on the body back and the neck (both mahogany), stain both the back and the neck, oil, binding scraping and glue the neck joint

Not too sure on the best order to do this in. I've got two main questions.

Should I glue the neck joint before applying the stain to the body back and neck? Both will be the same black stain finish.

Should I scrape the binding before or after applying the oil coats?

ONE final question. I've noticed this small patch by the binding which I want to fix. It's barely noticeable, until it catches the light but then it's plain frustrating.

How do fix this? Scrape with a hot blade, sand and then restain ? Or some other approach?

https://i.imgur.com/o7HYXJh.jpg

Gallery here Les Paul Kit progress gallery https://imgur.com/gallery/qc6Qbl9

Thanks for the help.

Cano

Roland · July 2020

I wouldn’t grain fill if you’re going to use an oil finish. You can apply the oil with 0000 grade wire wool using @WezV’s slurry method. Wez is also the best person to advise on the mark

Cano · July 2020

Thanks. The oil finish will be on top of a black water based stain, if that makes a difference

SteveRobinson · July 2020

It looks to me like the veneer is lifting?

Cano · July 2020

It looks like that on the photo, but it feels like it's a dip rather than a bump.

It's I'm perceivable to the naked eye, but when you know where it is you can feel it.

Roland · July 2020

If it’s a dip then you should be able to steam it out

Cano · July 2020

Thinking about it, might be a dip where the veneer had been crushed but the tension from the dip has pulled the veneer from the binding at the edge.

Not something I remember doing as I've been really careful with this guitar

If that has happened and the veneer is lifted at the edge, what's the best thing for me to do? My gut instinct is to leave it, but I obviously have no idea.

Cano · July 2020

I've now applied grain filler to the back and sides of the body, ready to sand back down again.
While waiting for that to dry I've been rethinking my plan for the rest of the body and also my choice of clearcoat.

I want planning to stain the rest of the body with black stain and then oil finish the whole body, either with Tru Oil or with Crimson High Build Finishing oil. I've got both but don't really understand the differences enough to make a choice yet.

However I've tried some test pieces of veneer and mahogany to see what the finish may look like and I'm not sure if that's the route I want to go anymore. I applied the Crimson High Build using 1200 grit wet & dry paper as recommended on Crimson's website, using little to no pressure and whilst it did apply oil, it also wore away some of the stain on both the veneer and the mahogany.

So here's the question, should I change plan and use a spray lacquer for clear coat instead? I've got Rustoleum Crystal Clear in mind as the product to use, purely from an evening of tired forum and Youtube searching. Would that give me a nicer, smooth glossy finish than the oil options? Or should I apply the oil with a paper towel or coffee filter rather than anything abraisive?

JGTay · July 2020

If you are going down the spray can route I would highly recommend https://www.manchesterguitartech.co.uk/nitrocellulose-lacquer/
@SteveRobinson is a member here

SteveRobinson · July 2020

Thanks @JGTay ;

Cano · July 2020

Thanks, I'd already bookmarked Steve's website to take a closer look. @SteveRobinson would your lacquer work on top of a stained wood or is it better suited to go on top of paint layers?

JGTay · July 2020

I used it on my recent build, which was a black crimson stain https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/181884/neck-through-flying-v-style-build-finished#latest

JGTay · July 2020

SteveRobinson said:

Thanks @JGTay ;

My pleasure Steve, it is a very good product and I was extremely pleased with the finish.

Cano · July 2020

@JGTay wow that does look good. Was it Black Stain, then Black Nitro, then Clear Nitro for that finish (obvs many many coats)

JGTay · July 2020

Just the Crimson Stain, pore fill where needed and then the clear nitro. Hand buffed, which left me with sore arms/shoulders but worth it

Cano · July 2020

Perfect. I think that's my preferred route then. Also means I should be able to use it directly on the front of the guitar too, which is obviously already stained. THANKS!

Now for my next question - I see lots of demo videos of people painting their guitar bodies with a long handle in place of the neck to hang from or to move the body whilst spraying. I get how you can do that for the bodies with bolt on necks, but what's the option for painting a body designed for a set neck? Do I just have to accept that I have to drill some small holes in the neck pocket to attach something to?

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1st Time Kit Build about to start, have some questions

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