Boosey & Hawkes Archtop A19 Zenith?

stevrossthepipe · October 2020

Hey guitar hive brain,

Got this in a charity shop for £75 a while back now. I was really skint at the time so was a big purchase but it’s probably my most cherished possession. Always thought it sounded great and has a great big neck and sound. I just connected with it. Plays well and doesn't buzz or fret out. A bloke tried to buy it off the charity shop for more money while I ran to the cash machine but the lady in their said ' it was meant for you'. I took it as a mystical sign.

I have done a bit of research and can see it was distributed by Boosey & Hawkes for Zenith. Inside it says A17 crossed out and and A19 written in. I can see the Zenith decal has been removed on the headstock. 50's, 60's, 70's ?? It smells old and has some nice patina. There is a bottom loaded soft brown case as well. I assume not original but certainly old and a bit musty.

Any info would be very interesting and as always very appreciated.

Cheers,

Steve

https://i.imgur.com/Qn0nZE7.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/9Xbw3Q7.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/rnBOLHz.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/8Fct6Rg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ixqnJox.jpg

DB1 · October 2020

I have a feeling that it was a Framus brand. That's about all I know though.

Jalapeno · October 2020

Looks great - is the neck straight ? Worth £300-£500 if playable.

DB1 · October 2020

It looks like you're in good company.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2692257/Sir-Paul-McCartney-brings-Zenith-Model-17-acoustic-guitar-retirement-new-music-video.html

stevrossthepipe · October 2020

@DB1 ;; A great picture of young Paul. Yes wow not far off at all. Can clearly see the Boosey & Hawkes. Thanks for that.

Yes very straight and very playable. Tuning pegs work well. Wow ya great. Honestly the little bit of wear on the back was all from me oh dear. @Jalapeno ;

About 3- 4 years ago I put D'Addario Phosphor Bronze 013. -.056 on the guitar and have changed a couple of times. Too much for this old lad??

Jalapeno · October 2020

stevrossthepipe said:

@DB1 ;;; A great picture of young Paul. Yes wow not far off at all. Can clearly see the Boosey & Hawkes. Thanks for that.

Yes very straight and very playable. Tuning pegs work well. Wow ya great. Honestly the little bit of wear on the back was all from me oh dear. @Jalapeno ;;

About 3- 4 years ago I put D'Addario Phosphor Bronze 013. -.056 on the guitar and have changed a couple of times. Too much for this old lad??

If it has stayed straight, no problem. Love it BTW !

FWIW I hate the bit o' string around the headstock look, and would put a strap button on the neck heel.

I recommend you try your request for info on Frugal Archtops Group on Facebook - they're very knowledgable about oldies.

SPECTRUM001 · October 2020

Boosey & Hawkes are an old school music publisher (Rogers & Hammerstein, music hall standards and Genesis (!!)) now owned by the Concord group.

Had no idea they used to distribute instruments.

Your guitar looks like very fine quality.

stevrossthepipe · October 2020

Good news. I did think about taking it in to a tech for a check over but probably not necessary. It seems to stay in tune for weeks at a time.

I know what you mean but don’t use it much standing up and probably rather leave it alone. Ok great, I will post on there.Thanks for the tip.

Jalapeno · October 2020

Here's the Frugal Group link https://www.facebook.com/groups/archtopguitarsforasong/

WezV · October 2020

i have a very similar one. You do see many variations on this theme but mine has a similar nicely faded burst, you see some versions with really terrible bursts. tailpiece, bridge, headstock shape and tuners are all the same. Although its headstock is covered in pearloid, the F-holes are more like a framus tango and it had no frets on the fretboard overhang. I would definitely say yours is made in the same factory at a similar time to mine - likely mid to late 50's.

I think its likely Framus made, but at a lower price point than the equivalent framus model. Left unbound, simpler cosmetics etc. Is the string anchor on the tailpiece solid, or bent metal?

Mine looked like this when i got it

But bridge was half filed through to correct for a neck that needed resetting. I ended up taking the neck off, replacing the board, fitting some extra neck reinforcement and adding a pickup. I also made a plate but still haven't fitted it over 12 years later

WezV · October 2020

you can see a Framus Zenith 17 from 1957 here
https://www.framus-vintage.de/en/modules/modells/instruments1b16.html ;

and a 5/52 Atlantis here from 1960
https://www.framus-vintage.de/en/modules/modells/instruments60ad.html

Other than the f-holes, yours sits directly between these two models from the same series

stevrossthepipe · October 2020

@WezV Thank you very much for this. Very Informative. I will have a read about these models.

I will take a picture but looks the same as yours as far as I can tell. Is yours folded or solid?

I have toyed with the idea of a pickup and it really looks fantastic on your guitar. I like it without the guard. Lovely colour.

Would love to hear what mine sounds like with a pickup. I might have t look into it. Was it difficult to do? I would go to a tech. Definitely time for me to get a decent hard case for it.

Johnnyseven · October 2020

I had a guitar very similar to this about 15 years ago. Mine was badged Besson which I was told was a brand name used by Boosey & Hawkes when I put it up for sale at Andy's on Denmark Street. I was also told Besson imported them from Germany and they stuck their badge on it so it could have been made by Framus or possibly Hofner. Andy put it up for sale for £350. Didn't sell though and went walkies when Andy's went bust. I had a struggle to get it back, I did though eventually. Sold it on Gumtree in the end that someone who wanted to turn it into some rockabilly machine or jazz box.

Jalapeno · October 2020

stevrossthepipe said:

Would love to hear what mine sounds like with a pickup. I might have t look into it. Was it difficult to do? I would go to a tech. Definitely time for me to get a decent hard case for it.

A floating single coil or humbucker is a peice of cake - couple of screws in the neck, job done. Scratchplate is very useful for hiding wires, you may need a bit of dremmel action to make space for the pickup end.

A DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1100 would look very cool

DB1 · October 2020

Along those lines, check out Chris Corcoran's Broadway - seems to be another Framus brand. I think he picked it up in a charity shop, put a P90 on it and it sounds fantastic. He plays with flatwounds - 15 gauge, so slightly industrial!

He tunes it down a semitone so as not to turn the thing into a boomerang.

WezV · October 2020

stevrossthepipe said:

@WezV Thank you very much for this. Very Informative. I will have a read about these models.

I will take a picture but looks the same as yours as far as I can tell. Is yours folded or solid?

I have toyed with the idea of a pickup and it really looks fantastic on your guitar. I like it without the guard. Lovely colour.

Would love to hear what mine sounds like with a pickup. I might have t look into it. Was it difficult to do? I would go to a tech. Definitely time for me to get a decent hard case for it.

Mines a folded metal string anchor on the tailpiece. Most of the frames badged ones do have a solid metal bar here, so I assume it was a cost cutting measure on the cheaper ones.

I have a aged pearloid guard ready to go on mine...one day

I added an end pin jack socket which is pretty easy to do. Then just fed wires out the f hole to the pickup. The plan was to put some scratchplate mounted controls on it.

Johnnyseven · October 2020

Johnnyseven said:

I had a guitar very similar to this about 15 years ago. Mine was badged Besson which I was told was a brand name used by Boosey & Hawkes when I put it up for sale at Andy's on Denmark Street. I was also told Besson imported them from Germany and they stuck their badge on it so it could have been made by Framus or possibly Hofner. Andy put it up for sale for £350. Didn't sell though and went walkies when Andy's went bust. I had a struggle to get it back, I did though eventually. Sold it on Gumtree in the end that someone who wanted to turn it into some rockabilly machine or jazz box.

Just found some old photos. It had a badge on the headstock which said The Aristone, I think the Besson reference must have been inside the body.

stevrossthepipe · October 2020

@WezV ; The tail piece

https://i.imgur.com/XnznkRJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ItssukH.jpg

stevrossthepipe · October 2020

@DB1 ; What a player. That sounds fantastic.

@Jalapeno ; I will have a look at that Rhythm Chief. My mind is whirring now from the possibilities.

@Johnnyseven interesting. Thanks for sharing. Sounds like there must be a lot of different versions and brandings floating around.

Any one have any tips for a correct fitting hard case?

WezV · October 2020

stevrossthepipe said:

@WezV ; The tail piece

https://i.imgur.com/XnznkRJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ItssukH.jpg

Yeah, that is identical to mine.

stevrossthepipe · August 2023

Ooo saw this. Mine isn't this version but looks very similar. Doesn't sound this good either, ha.

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Boosey & Hawkes Archtop A19 Zenith?

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