Which Tweed Circuit?

AndyJP · April 2021

Hi guys,

What sort of tweed circuit would I be looking at for edge of breakup with a medium volume drummer? I play Gibsons with low output pickups and like to use my guitar volume instead of pedals.

I've read that a tweed deluxe doesn't have the head room. I like the edge of breakup tones on these but they don't seem loud enough. So am I talking Tweed Pro, Tweed Super etc?

Not really wanting to spend Lazy J money, so forget all the super fancy boutique stuff. I'm thinking about quality second hand clones like Vyse. £600-800.

Trying to figure out which circuit is best suited to start with.

thx,
Andy

ICBM · April 2021

Fender Blues Deluxe

You can actually get a brand new one in budget (just), but second hand ones aren't too rare and typically around £500.

If you haven't tried one before, both channels are more 'tweedy' than the Hotrod - they're actually much more of a single-channel amp with a switchable (very light) drive mode, rather than a separate channel.

dazzajl · April 2021

My Vyse 5e3 (now owned by @TheMarlin (although here at the moment (I know, too complicated

))) was never quite enough in my last band. We did have the loudest, heaviest handed drummer I've ever heard though. It's the most amazing amp ever and is beyond rich and bold in how it sounds. A total brute but winding off the guitar volume will let you put the breakup pretty much wherever you want it, in a more civilised band anyway.

I'd personally take a single Vyse over a field of most boutique clones any day.* Everything that Barry builds is at least the equal of any builder worldwide, just not as fashionable.

* For full disclosure, I do have a Rift Americana.

AndyJP · April 2021

@icbm thx for the reply. I got to try one at a jam session once. It was setup clean for pedals. It was loud!

AndyJP · April 2021

@dazzajl Sounds like every drummer I've ever played with! I do wonder if it's best going for a tweed deluxe and miking it up. I mainly want something grab and go for rehearsal rooms. I've got another louder amp that I love when need volume.

Jota · April 2021

5E3 is the amp I take for rehearsals.

The drummer I play with is not massively loud and the room is kind of "dead" sounding so it works perfectly.

I use the second input on the bright channel with volume on 3 and crank the volume on the other channel to clean it up a little.

AndyJP · April 2021

@Jota thats good to know. ta! Do you play the amp bone dry or add any reverb?

dazzajl · April 2021

AndyJP said:

@dazzajl Sounds like every drummer I've ever played with! I do wonder if it's just going for a tweed deluxe and miking it up. I mainly want something grab and go for rehearsal rooms. I've got a lot louder amp that I love when need volume.

The thing with all the 5e3 clones around now is that you don't really know what you're getting until you can plug in a try it. I've had that Vyse Deluxe side by side with a hand wired Fender version, an Abbot, a Gartone and the Americana and none sound the same. Apart from the Americana, which I specced to be gnarly and ferocious, all of them have been sanitised to be more compliant and lost that gorgeous edge because of it.

In my mind a good 5e3 should be something of a one trick pony and do that one thing better than any other amp ever could. Out of it's three controls two say volume and yet that's the one thing you have almost no say over. It produces nothing until you reach two on the dial and by the time you get to three, it's flat out and taking the roof off. From there up to twelve you're playing with the grind, the sag and the compression and it's completely glorious and addictive. If you want to change the amount of distortion and decibel level you're getting, that's on the guitar.

I'd say that everyone should try a full fat Deluxe. It might not suit you at all but at least you've got to tick it off your list. Just don't go for a skimmed or semi skimmed version. you can get that from a good modeller

Jota · April 2021

AndyJP said:

@Jota thats good to know. ta! Do you play the amp bone dry or add any reverb?

I almost always have a reverb and a subtle slapback from my HX Stomp.
Have to say I also have a ClinchFX EP-Pre always on after my drive pedals and before the Stomp.

Jota · April 2021

dazzajl said:

AndyJP said:

@dazzajl Sounds like every drummer I've ever played with! I do wonder if it's just going for a tweed deluxe and miking it up. I mainly want something grab and go for rehearsal rooms. I've got a lot louder amp that I love when need volume.

If you want to change the amount of distortion and decibel level you're getting, that's on the guitar.

Or the unused channel's volume.

Gassage · April 2021

This might go against the valve grain but you'd do worse than score the Blues Cube in the classifieds that's just come up for sale.

dazzajl · April 2021

Jota said:

dazzajl said:

AndyJP said:

@dazzajl Sounds like every drummer I've ever played with! I do wonder if it's just going for a tweed deluxe and miking it up. I mainly want something grab and go for rehearsal rooms. I've got a lot louder amp that I love when need volume.

If you want to change the amount of distortion and decibel level you're getting, that's on the guitar.

Or the unused channel's volume.

Yup, good point!

All part of the wonderful craziness of the 5e3

Lebarque · April 2021

dazzajl said:

AndyJP said:

@dazzajl Sounds like every drummer I've ever played with! I do wonder if it's just going for a tweed deluxe and miking it up. I mainly want something grab and go for rehearsal rooms. I've got a lot louder amp that I love when need volume.

The thing with all the 5e3 clones around now is that you don't really know what you're getting until you can plug in a try it. I've had that Vyse Deluxe side by side with a hand wired Fender version, an Abbot, a Gartone and the Americana and none sound the same. Apart from the Americana, which I specced to be gnarly and ferocious, all of them have been sanitised to be more compliant and lost that gorgeous edge because of it.

In my mind a good 5e3 should be something of a one trick pony and do that one thing better than any other amp ever could. Out of it's three controls two say volume and yet that's the one thing you have almost no say over. It produces nothing until you reach two on the dial and by the time you get to three, it's flat out and taking the roof off. From there up to twelve you're playing with the grind, the sag and the compression and it's completely glorious and addictive. If you want to change the amount of distortion and decibel level you're getting, that's on the guitar.

I'd say that everyone should try a full fat Deluxe. It might not suit you at all but at least you've got to tick it off your list. Just don't go for a skimmed or semi skimmed version. you can get that from a good modeller

Would love to know your impressions of the differences of all those amps you mention

Keefy · April 2021

dazzajl said:

AndyJP said:

@dazzajl Sounds like every drummer I've ever played with! I do wonder if it's just going for a tweed deluxe and miking it up. I mainly want something grab and go for rehearsal rooms. I've got a lot louder amp that I love when need volume.

The thing with all the 5e3 clones around now is that you don't really know what you're getting until you can plug in a try it. I've had that Vyse Deluxe side by side with a hand wired Fender version, an Abbot, a Gartone and the Americana and none sound the same. Apart from the Americana, which I specced to be gnarly and ferocious, all of them have been sanitised to be more compliant and lost that gorgeous edge because of it.

In my mind a good 5e3 should be something of a one trick pony and do that one thing better than any other amp ever could. Out of it's three controls two say volume and yet that's the one thing you have almost no say over. It produces nothing until you reach two on the dial and by the time you get to three, it's flat out and taking the roof off. From there up to twelve you're playing with the grind, the sag and the compression and it's completely glorious and addictive. If you want to change the amount of distortion and decibel level you're getting, that's on the guitar.

I'd say that everyone should try a full fat Deluxe. It might not suit you at all but at least you've got to tick it off your list. Just don't go for a skimmed or semi skimmed version. you can get that from a good modeller

This. I've found mine great for gigs where you don't mind it getting gritty when you dig in, but achieving a sensible rehearsal volume means trying to adjust the volume knob in 1 degree increments - and I have a slightly lower-gain phase inverter valve fitted!

AndyJP · April 2021

Thx for all the info guys..

There's some geez selling a clone tweed deluxe on ebay.

It has some mods (taken from his description). But it sounds like it can be switched between the three mods.

THE AMP (BUILT BY MYSELF) IS THE ORIGINAL 5E3 CIRCUIT. I HAVE ADDED ROB ROBINETTES FEEDBACK SWITCH MOD...(SEE LAST TWO PHOTOS)....THIS IS FROM HIS SITE...

This relatively easy 3-way feedback switch mod allows three distinct flavors of amplifier:

1. Feedback with no cathode bypass capacitor - lowest gain with tight lows, sharp transition to distortion, less noise and hiss and extra headroom for a very clean and civilized tone. This really transforms the amp and makes it much more versatile.

2. No feedback but with no V2A cathode bypass capacitor - moderate gain and civility--a nice compromise tone. This position reduces V2A's (2nd preamp) gain which shifts the 5E3's distortion balance so you'll get less preamp and phase inverter distortion but more power tube distortion at the same volume. If you do this mod you owe it to yourself to play around with this setting, it's pretty cool. This setting is also great with boost and distortion pedals.

3. Normal 5E3 configuration with no feedback and the cathode bypass capacitor in circuit - highest gain and maximum early breakup tweediness.

THIS MOD MAKES THE AMP MORE VERSATILE GIVING IT MORE HEADROOM SO HIGHER VOLUME CLEANS CAN BE OBTAINED. THE ADDED NEGATIVE FEEDBACK DECREASES THE GAIN OF THE AMP, INCREASING HEADROOM, FLATTENING FREQUENCY RESPONSE AND INCREASING BANDWIDTH. NFB ALSO MAKES THE AMP MORE PEDAL FRIENDLY. ROBS “5E3 MODS” SECTION ONLINE GIVES THE COMPLETE DETAILS OF THIS MOD.

Gassage · April 2021

Never, ever trust anyone who uses 'myself' when they should use 'me'.

Emiel · April 2021

I have had a couple of Tweed amp clones, including a 5E3 Deluxe, 5E7 Bandmaster and 5F10 Harvard (which I still own).

What's nice about these amps is that you can tailor the volume with the right speaker. A 95 dB Jensen P12Q RI will make a 5E3 a fairly quiet amp to run it flat out on small gigs, and with a 100 dB Celestion Alnico Blue it will be more than plenty loud clean even on bigger stages.

One thing to mention about the 5E3 is that is a notoriously bass heavy amp which means it will get mushy/fuzzy when turned up. There are mods that solve it but I feel that most of them take away some of the character of the amp. More recently I saw some clips of a 5D3 which does seem to have less and more tight low end and a smoother top end. Maybe something to look for?

If you need more volume, I'd personally get a larger Tweed amp (Super/Bandmaster). They have larger cabinets and more speakers too, so they do sound 'bigger' as well. That might help if you are the only guitar player and/or fighting with a loud drummer.

AndyJP · April 2021

@Gassage this guy clearly isn't taking it seriously eh?

AndyJP · April 2021

@Emiel oooh, clean at volume. Ooooh!

AndyJP · April 2021

This geez is flogging a Tweed Pro on Ebay.

Gassage · April 2021

@andyjp - I really would listen to those Blues Cube demo's. I absolutely adore them and they're the perfect solution at a very reasonable price.

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Which Tweed Circuit?

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