Logic Pro 11 and Logic iPad 2 - coming this week!

Habanero · May 14

robinbowes said:

stickyfiddle said:

Haych said:

Are these updates/new features available to all Logic users or just those running Apple Silicon?

From the bottom of the newsroom link:
M-series Apple silicon is recommended when using Session Players on iPad.
M-series Apple silicon is required when using Stem Splitter on iPad and Mac.
M-series Apple silicon is recommended when using ChromaGlow on iPad. M-series Apple silicon is required when using ChromaGlow on Mac.

<sigh> Looks like I have a new Mac in my near future

I thought that too last week until it became apparent that most of the new features don't need the M-series silicon. It even works on my ageing MacBook Pro that doesn't officially support the required version of macOS.

monquixote · May 14

TeleMaster said:

The drummer program is great, I wonder how good the keys and bass programs will be and if they'll actually be good enough for recordings. I've programmed the drummer program for so many tracks and I really do think it's excellent, and because of the AI element there's enough spontaneity to give the illusion of it being real, and most won't notice that it's not.

That being said, it's the drums, it's not the same as the bass so I don't know if it would be more obvious, or if I would feel right not creating my own bass part, and it's certainly not as crucial potentially as keys. I guess you could argue it's the same as a sequencer but I think the difference is no one thinks someone is playing a fast sequenced arpeggiator whereas this gives the impression you are.

I'd like some kind of real time live projects too, like you can have with Excel and so on. I believe you can do this with Pro Tools already, and have been able to for quite a while. Being able to record live and work on sessions over the internet with other people in real time would be incredible.

I have lots of ethical questions. I wonder if it will mean less need for certain instrument types because there's such a convincing AI version right here and so on. I've definitely not needed drummers, or needed to be in the room with one to write as much as I used to.

Regarding the bass, all the bass on the 2020 Dua Lipa album Future Nostalgia is MIDI with a Bass Guitar VST and most people didn't realise. It got listed on a lot of end of year "Best basslines of the year" lists etc. So it can certainly get to the point where it's on the 3rd best selling album of the year.

I don't really like the idea of an AI coming up with bass lines as to me I'm not composing the song, but I'm happy for there to be something that takes my MIDI and adds in all the microtiming and articulations that a real bass player might do.

Key's I'm slightly more OK with and I'll already use an advanced arpeggiator to change block chords into a pattern a keyboard player might actually do.

It is undoubtedly going to kill what remains of the session music scene except for very high level guys with a specific sound and people producing library music and Film and TV are again going to be in trouble. Benn Jordan is an interesting YT guy who used to do this (Also an IDM artist) and he got out of it a few years ago for similar reason.

stickyfiddle · May 14

@monquixote weren't most/all of the lines on Thriller programmed rather than played? I’m sure at least some were

But either way the result is the critical thing, and most people just want “a part” rather than “the best part possible”, which of course is also why most music is bland rubbish. But either way it’ll hurt session folks for sure.

TeleMaster · May 14

robinbowes said:

stickyfiddle said:

Haych said:

Are these updates/new features available to all Logic users or just those running Apple Silicon?

From the bottom of the newsroom link:
M-series Apple silicon is recommended when using Session Players on iPad.
M-series Apple silicon is required when using Stem Splitter on iPad and Mac.
M-series Apple silicon is recommended when using ChromaGlow on iPad. M-series Apple silicon is required when using ChromaGlow on Mac.

<sigh> Looks like I have a new Mac in my near future

They are excellent. I've got a 13 inch M1 from 3.5 years ago with 8GB ram and it runs large projects with many tracks and plugins open without any issue. I've no plans to upgrade really so if you get one of the newer ones I expect you're good for ages.

monquixote · May 14

stickyfiddle said:

@monquixote weren't most/all of the lines on Thriller programmed rather than played? I’m sure at least some were

But either way the result is the critical thing, and most people just want “a part” rather than “the best part possible”, which of course is also why most music is bland rubbish. But either way it’ll hurt session folks for sure.

The difference is that the lines on that sound like a synth.

If you listen to Future Nostalgia it sounds like a bass player, it even pops notes etc.

TeleMaster · May 14

monquixote said:

TeleMaster said:

The drummer program is great, I wonder how good the keys and bass programs will be and if they'll actually be good enough for recordings. I've programmed the drummer program for so many tracks and I really do think it's excellent, and because of the AI element there's enough spontaneity to give the illusion of it being real, and most won't notice that it's not.

That being said, it's the drums, it's not the same as the bass so I don't know if it would be more obvious, or if I would feel right not creating my own bass part, and it's certainly not as crucial potentially as keys. I guess you could argue it's the same as a sequencer but I think the difference is no one thinks someone is playing a fast sequenced arpeggiator whereas this gives the impression you are.

I'd like some kind of real time live projects too, like you can have with Excel and so on. I believe you can do this with Pro Tools already, and have been able to for quite a while. Being able to record live and work on sessions over the internet with other people in real time would be incredible.

I have lots of ethical questions. I wonder if it will mean less need for certain instrument types because there's such a convincing AI version right here and so on. I've definitely not needed drummers, or needed to be in the room with one to write as much as I used to.

Regarding the bass, all the bass on the 2020 Dua Lipa album Future Nostalgia is MIDI with a Bass Guitar VST and most people didn't realise. It got listed on a lot of end of year "Best basslines of the year" lists etc. So it can certainly get to the point where it's on the 3rd best selling album of the year.

I don't really like the idea of an AI coming up with bass lines as to me I'm not composing the song, but I'm happy for there to be something that takes my MIDI and adds in all the microtiming and articulations that a real bass player might do.

Key's I'm slightly more OK with and I'll already use an advanced arpeggiator to change block chords into a pattern a keyboard player might actually do.

It is undoubtedly going to kill what remains of the session music scene except for very high level guys with a specific sound and people producing library music and Film and TV are again going to be in trouble. Benn Jordan is an interesting YT guy who used to do this (Also an IDM artist) and he got out of it a few years ago for similar reason.

Yea, doesn't surprise me at all. Bass synth has been used for decades and that's great, and all 80's/90's and onwards industrial, house, dance whatever is all bass synth, as is a lot of stuff in rock (NiN) and I love a Moog Sub Phatty so I'm all for that, and soft synths aren't new either.

It's more the fact that the AI program will create basslines far better than I can (I'm no bassist), so why would I bother to get a bassist, or bother to write an inferior bass line when I can have a better one immediately? Why would I employ a pianist to write accompaniment to my music if I can get a similar effect from the Piano AI in my DAW? Especially if I'm part of the new breed of musicians who sits at home and writes, does Youtube, doesn't play live and so on.

I agree, we will see less and less people being able to make money from it. For me, it's really convenient, but I also feel like I'm cheating. Drums are one thing, making sequences for an arpeggiator is fine, getting your DAW to write whole parts on different instruments, well it seems like something else entirely.

TeleMaster · May 14

The Keys program is actually awesome.

Habanero · May 15

TeleMaster said:

The Keys program is actually awesome.

Haven’t tried it yet, but I’m liking the revised Drummer.

TeleMaster · May 15

Habanero said:

TeleMaster said:

The Keys program is actually awesome.

Haven’t tried it yet, but I’m liking the revised Drummer.

It's pretty much exactly what I'd want from piano accompaniment to be honest. When I add it, or ask my more skilled mate to it's pretty much what the AI is doing so if I were paying for that I wouldn't bother. You can select all the parameters with the studio piano and select other virtual instruments and it'll play them through them, which is great. So I started with piano, now it's a lush pad.

Drummer is great but I often use it as a template and then make changes in the piano roll to my liking for more flexibility.

jamesguitar · May 15

Apple have outdone themselves with the new instrument / stem separation tool. They’re not always the first to the party, but once they get there they often lead they way.

I’m currently using it to mix some band shows that were recorded with stereo mics (had got multiple cameras in, but sound engineer couldn’t send separate stems). One of them is a Cory Wong show where the drums ended up being too loud on the stereo recording.

What does everyone else make of this new feature? (assuming you’re on silicon / able to use it)

stickyfiddle · May 15

jamesguitar said:

Apple have outdone themselves with the new instrument / stem separation tool. They’re not always the first to the party, but once they get there they often lead they way.
I’m currently using it to mix some band shows that were recorded with stereo mics (had got multiple cameras in, but sound engineer couldn’t send separate stems). One of them is a Cory Wong show where the drums ended up being too loud on the stereo recording.

What does everyone else make of this new feature? (assuming you’re on silicon / able to use it)

I’m away this week but this is the tool that appeals most, because I use Moises all the time but I’d love to stop paying for it and have one less app in any of my workflows.

What options does it give you on splits?

Ideally I’d like drums, bass, guitars, keys and vocals. But splitting guitars & keys can be a challenge

jamesguitar · May 15

stickyfiddle said:

jamesguitar said:

Apple have outdone themselves with the new instrument / stem separation tool. They’re not always the first to the party, but once they get there they often lead they way.
I’m currently using it to mix some band shows that were recorded with stereo mics (had got multiple cameras in, but sound engineer couldn’t send separate stems). One of them is a Cory Wong show where the drums ended up being too loud on the stereo recording.

What does everyone else make of this new feature? (assuming you’re on silicon / able to use it)

I’m away this week but this is the tool that appeals most, because I use Moises all the time but I’d love to stop paying for it and have one less app in any of my workflows.

What options does it give you on splits?

Ideally I’d like drums, bass, guitars, keys and vocals. But splitting guitars & keys can be a challenge

Drums, bass, vocals, and guitar / keys. It’s cleaner and less artifacts than any of the others I’ve used. As with anything music related YMMV, so your comparison / take on it would be great too.

monquixote · May 15

jamesguitar said:

stickyfiddle said:

jamesguitar said:

Apple have outdone themselves with the new instrument / stem separation tool. They’re not always the first to the party, but once they get there they often lead they way.
I’m currently using it to mix some band shows that were recorded with stereo mics (had got multiple cameras in, but sound engineer couldn’t send separate stems). One of them is a Cory Wong show where the drums ended up being too loud on the stereo recording.

What does everyone else make of this new feature? (assuming you’re on silicon / able to use it)

I’m away this week but this is the tool that appeals most, because I use Moises all the time but I’d love to stop paying for it and have one less app in any of my workflows.

What options does it give you on splits?

Ideally I’d like drums, bass, guitars, keys and vocals. But splitting guitars & keys can be a challenge

Drums, bass, vocals, and guitar / keys. It’s cleaner and less artifacts than any of the others I’ve used. As with anything music related YMMV, so your comparison / take on it would be great too.

I'm very excited about this. Stemroller is excellent, but it takes about 2 hours per track on my crap PC

andy_k · May 15

I liked the original drummer feature in Logic, a few versions back, and used to use it to get something that worked well, and theb dragged it down to spit out midi to use with other drum vsts, primitive AI at that point I guess.
Just saw the prices for a new IPad pro , starting at a grand, with 2-300 for the keyboard and pencil, M4 now, staggering.
There is an open source stem splitter, who's name escapes me, that can extract 6 elements and variations, which makes spending money on this kind of stuff unnecesary, unless you are restricting yourself to the Mac OS, at this point why would you, when they are making their own hardware obsolete at such a quick cycle???

andy_k · May 15

Ps, DMUCS GUI, for the stem splitting.

monquixote · May 20

Has anyone else tried the new bass guitar plugin that comes with Logic?

I was working on a sample based track which had one section where I didn't have any appropriate bass samples to use in one section so I wrote a simple bassline that matched that section and thought I would try and get it to sound similar to the bits of the track that did have bass guitar samples.

I was very disappointed it sounded very fake to me and no better than using the Korg M1 VST which is a late 80's rompler and thus not really "accurate" and that's after running it through the Logic Bass Amp simulator plugin.
It was also making quite dumb choices about how it was playing the notes moving up and down the neck loads and staying on the same string so that part of it doesn't seem that effective either.

I ended up using a very obvious synth patch so it didn't even sound like I was trying to make it sound like a Bass Guitar.

stickyfiddle · May 20

I had a quick play with Stem Splitter last night.

Early indications are it's fast and very good at what it does. Not quite as good as Moises, not least because it can only do the standard 4 splits, but also doesn't split vocals quite as cleanly on the tracks I tried. (Also because it doesn't work on my phone!)

But it's a great start and it'll be absolutely plenty for a lot of people - I expect extracting drums or vocals from an existing track will be the biggest use cases.

monquixote · May 21

I tried recording into iPad Logic and I must say I was impressed.

This is just the first riff that came into my head over a drum break I'd sampled for an Elektronauts competition. The bass is my new Squier through a Nembrini Dark Glass emulator and the guitars are all through their free Krunck (I guess Krank?) model. Probably more aggressive sounding than I'd usually go for, but still it's pretty crazy that you can knock something like that up in 2 hours on a tablet.

Haych · May 21

monquixote said:

I tried recording into iPad Logic and I must say I was impressed.

This is just the first riff that came into my head over a drum break I'd sampled for an Elektronauts competition. The bass is my new Squier through a Nembrini Dark Glass emulator and the guitars are all through their free Krunck (I guess Krank?) model. Probably more aggressive sounding than I'd usually go for, but still it's pretty crazy that you can knock something like that up in 2 hours on a tablet.

To be fair, that is chuffing ace!

monquixote · May 21

Haych said:

monquixote said:

I tried recording into iPad Logic and I must say I was impressed.

This is just the first riff that came into my head over a drum break I'd sampled for an Elektronauts competition. The bass is my new Squier through a Nembrini Dark Glass emulator and the guitars are all through their free Krunck (I guess Krank?) model. Probably more aggressive sounding than I'd usually go for, but still it's pretty crazy that you can knock something like that up in 2 hours on a tablet.

To be fair, that is chuffing ace!

Thank you!

It's the first time I've recorded a guitar in 7 years so it felt good to be doing some recording!

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