Brexit to be triggered tomorrow - what if the severance deal is a bad one for the UK?

Bridgehouse

Fretwired said:

Fortheloveofguitar said:

Hard Brexit all the way

Won't happen. It's not in anyone's interests. The last thing the EU needs is a rogue state off the coast of France with a competitive currency, low taxes, light regulation and a booming economy.

What? Jersey?

Fretwired

Bridgehouse said:

Fretwired said:

Fortheloveofguitar said:

Hard Brexit all the way

Won't happen. It's not in anyone's interests. The last thing the EU needs is a rogue state off the coast of France with a competitive currency, low taxes, light regulation and a booming economy.

What? Jersey?

Yep. The EU hates Jersey with it's tax dodging millionaires and bent finance companies ... :-)

Bridgehouse

Fretwired said:

Bridgehouse said:

Fretwired said:

Fortheloveofguitar said:

Hard Brexit all the way

Won't happen. It's not in anyone's interests. The last thing the EU needs is a rogue state off the coast of France with a competitive currency, low taxes, light regulation and a booming economy.

What? Jersey?

Yep. The EU hates Jersey with it's tax dodging millionaires and bent finance companies ... :-)

Wow. There must be an EU military task force on the way to the IOM then...

Budgie

Fukn lol at the photograph of May signing..... 'I have in my hand a piece of paper' springs to mind. The Brexit barrack room economists have posted their endless links and flabby theorising. We've had the threats of all sorts of retribution from gloating brexiteers towards the traitorous judiciary, politicians and naysayers. It's now time for a no-excuses transition from what we have right now to the promised promised-land of prosperity and unadulterated sovereignty. No pressure then.

ToneControl

"what if the severance deal is a bad one for the UK?"

then we don't sign it

Clarky

Fretwired said:

The fact that David Davis says EU immigration will probably rise post Brexit

gets funnier by the minute… lmao

Bidley

I'm pretty sure bitching at eachother will definitely make everything all better.

Bridgehouse

Bidley said:

I'm pretty sure bitching at eachother will definitely make everything all better.

No it bloody won't!!!! You flippin' remoaning brexiteer..



Actually, I do feel better now.. thanks!

Sambostar

Bucket

Fretwired said:
booming economy.

lol

How many years into the future are you looking?

Boromedic

Fretwired said:

Boromedic said:

Look I'm far from an expert in this, however in bold above is the problem, For us to agree the EU is going to want to keep the free passage of people across borders as well as goods, this was a key point of the Leave campaign. The EU isn't going to offer us a unique deal if we don't agree to this, and then all we'll have achieved is to shoot ourselves in both feet instead of one. People voted out on this point, they can of course go back on it, then what benefit have they achieved? I'm all for immigration to be honest, sick of all the scaremongering on that point, the laziest most benefit scrounging folk I've ever come across are all home grown I'm afraid.

I'll put it bluntly, the EU is no golden god however for most lower paid workers and decent hardworking folk most workers rights we attained and improved over the last 30 years have come from the EU. Maternity pay, paternity pay, half decent sick leave. After we've left all these will be eroded and people will be on zero hour, flexible working contracts lauded as some amazing new system that saves them taxes but removes all workers rights. I just hope the NHS can stay sustained after all this as believe me when I say, the last thing you want is an insurance based system. Anyone who thinks that will be an improvement is quite simply an idiot.

Sorry mate but that's just bollocks. The UK was way ahead in terms of employment rights for years and the EU played catch up - the EU adopted many UK rules - check the TUC website. Even now we are ahead in certain areas - for example, the 52 weeks of statutory maternity leave in the UK is considerably longer than the 14 weeks guaranteed by EU law.

As for free movement of people that is easily fixed by changing it to free movement of labour and students and having cap to prevent a surge in economic migrants - France is calling for this as are German trade unions. Slight tweak to the rules.

Yeah I worded it badly as I was on my way to bed, some of it was down to alterations and additions on EU directives and yes whilst we've moved ahead of the EU in some areas, the biggest protection people have on these is that we're in the EU, that was the point I was making. Once these protections are removed then its now a domestic law issue and the government can change the rules if it likes.

We shall see what happens, given there's no plan for Brexit yet and certainly no economic plan it's going to be hard to predict the future. One of us is right, I hope it's you to be honest but somehow I think the only people who will benefit from this craziness will be the already stupidly rich and unless that's already you, I'm genuinely worried.

Boromedic

P.s. Doesn't sound like Barnier is in the mood for dancing either, he's promised no deal until the UK coughs up £50 billion in prior commitment costs, he also said that the UK can't just walk away if they don't like whats on the table.

ThePrettyDamned

I've got no confidence in any of the politicians who are involved in negotiations with the eu. 

They'll protect their own interests. I wonder how many of them have fingers in financial pies? 

I hope it'll all turn out alright. Because, "the people have spoken" and all that bullshit. 

Limehouse_Blues

Fretwired said:

Boromedic said:

Look I'm far from an expert in this, however in bold above is the problem, For us to agree the EU is going to want to keep the free passage of people across borders as well as goods, this was a key point of the Leave campaign. The EU isn't going to offer us a unique deal if we don't agree to this, and then all we'll have achieved is to shoot ourselves in both feet instead of one. People voted out on this point, they can of course go back on it, then what benefit have they achieved? I'm all for immigration to be honest, sick of all the scaremongering on that point, the laziest most benefit scrounging folk I've ever come across are all home grown I'm afraid.

I'll put it bluntly, the EU is no golden god however for most lower paid workers and decent hardworking folk most workers rights we attained and improved over the last 30 years have come from the EU. Maternity pay, paternity pay, half decent sick leave. After we've left all these will be eroded and people will be on zero hour, flexible working contracts lauded as some amazing new system that saves them taxes but removes all workers rights. I just hope the NHS can stay sustained after all this as believe me when I say, the last thing you want is an insurance based system. Anyone who thinks that will be an improvement is quite simply an idiot.

As for free movement of people that is easily fixed by changing it to free movement of labour and students and having cap to prevent a surge in economic migrants - France is calling for this as are German trade unions. Slight tweak to the rules.

Have you ever read the EU Treaties? Free movement of people (as distinct from workers) is a creature of Maastricht (rather than Rome). It's most striking facet is the Schengen Agreement from which the UK enjoys an opt out. The right simply to 'reside' in another member state (qua person not worker) is in any case conditional on possessing the means to sustain oneself. Free movement of workers derives from Rome Treaty and it is what we have had for yonks (including prior to Maastricht).

richardhomer

The weather's taken a turn for the worse here in Manchester, after a promising start to the week.

How's it where you are?

Ravenous

Rocker said:

Will you guys be happy to accept that your Government did it's best in that eventuality (of the deal for the UK being a long way short of what is being hoped for)... <snipped>

Well unfortunately everyone with an opinion disagrees an what the UK did vote for. So what's the point of arguing about it?

Fretwired

Limehouse_Blues said:

Have you ever read the EU Treaties? Free movement of people (as distinct from workers) is a creature of Maastricht (rather than Rome). It's most striking facet is the Schengen Agreement from which the UK enjoys an opt out. The right simply to 'reside' in another member state (qua person not worker) is in any case conditional on possessing the means to sustain oneself. Free movement of workers derives from Rome Treaty and it is what we have had for yonks (including prior to Maastricht).

Yes, but politicians in France, Netherlands, Denmark and Germany are open to amend it. And you don't have to sustain yourself - you are entitled to the same rights as the population of the country you reside in and that means benefits and access to healthcare (subject to a qualifying period in some countries). The Dutch favour a system whereby if you are not a student or a tourist and you can't, or won't get a job and can't support yourself then you must return to your country of origin after a reasonable period - say 6 months. The EU needs reform.

In the UK anyone gaining a low paid job in the UK from another EU country qualifies for an expanded range of in work benefits at UK rates paid for by UK taxpayers. It also became established that EU migrants using the EU freedom of movement provision could qualify for unemployment benefits. This has led to wage stagnation as employers know their low wages will be topped up with government handouts and there's a plentiful supply of workers willing to work for slave wages. It was never envisaged that so many low skilled workers would move to places like the UK, Denmark and the Netherlands - even Blair admitted he was wrong.

Laugh if you like, but I think the UK will retain free movement with a brake on numbers and a block on access to unemployment benefit until someone has contributed, as happens in other EU countries.

Octafish

Rocker said:

Will you guys be happy to accept that your Government did it's best in that eventuality (of the deal for the UK being a long way short of what is being hoped for) or would you want to vote on acceptance or rejection of the deal? 

The shit wrapped in skin that is our Government will negotiate only in their own and big business' interest. It's laughable that anyone thinks they're going to look out for the little people, particularly when there's no credible opposition to challenge them... enjoy

Octafish

Fretwired said:

Laugh if you like, but I think the UK will retain free movement with a brake on numbers and a block on access to unemployment benefit until someone has contributed, as happens in other EU countries.

I don't personally find that laughable, but I get the impression that a notable amount of those who voted to leave will be up in arms if any free movement at all is retained.

fretmeister

Twas the night before Brexit and all through the land
Nothing stirred, not even a plan.