My AX8 vs Helix LT Journey

John_A

Jonathanthomas83 said:

John_A said:

guitarfishbay said:

I have absolutely no idea what a piss on is to be honest

It's a northern expression meaning a difficult way of doing things

If you heard what we hear, you’d piss on anything to get it ;-)

Planning to give one a go, just need to find the time, if it's better than the Helix I'll be the first to sing its praises, worst case is it's just different and I end up keeping both

Jonathanthomas83

John_A said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

John_A said:

guitarfishbay said:

I have absolutely no idea what a piss on is to be honest

It's a northern expression meaning a difficult way of doing things

If you heard what we hear, you’d piss on anything to get it ;-)

Planning to give one a go, just need to find the time, if it's better than the Helix I'll be the first to sing its praises, worst case is it's just different and I end up keeping both

Good luck with it fella! Hope you find one, they're a pain to get.

Clarky

peteri said:

@Clarky You're a genius! Wiz'd awarded - took maybe 15 minutes to get that 5153 blue idea working - sounds amazing!

Any idea how to clear a block 'Y' value (to clear the amp I no longer need)?

Thanks so much

hahaaaa.... no prob at all..

you can't clear the Y side.. you simply opt not to use it

Clarky

peteri said:

ah - ok thanks, was trying to save CPU

the active side of the amp block is the only part of the block that consumes CPU
that's why there's a small break in audio when you switch.. 
it's the Y side loading the amp

Clarky

John_A said:

As a current Helix user thinking of giving the AX8 a try this all looks a bit of a piss on

all units have strengths and weaknesses
sometimes, to overcome a weakness you have to think of alternative ways of doing things
a little extra time thinking and problem solving and you end up with a config that, from a performance perspective will deliver exactly what you're looking for..

The Helix is a great unit [I know this first hand]
so is the AX8 [which I also know first hand..
their strengths and weakness though are not the same..
I was seriously looking at both of these units to find out if they could be a viable alternative to my Axe-FX in the interests of being able to travel lighter when I play overseas..
unfortunately for me.. neither of them got even remotely close.. the Axe-FX is a different animal entirely

peteri

And to be clear, you really don't need to do all these tricks to get a good sound.

I had a Helix and found myself playing with EQ blocks, compressors, input impedence settings etc.

With the Ax8 I needed none of these, dropped an amp, cab and reverb and it sounded amazing.

What Clarky is describing is how to really get an amazing range out of the unit - so there really is no reason using the above ideas you can't get an incredible range of sounds without changing a preset. I can go from clean Fender, through Plexi, to Iron Maiden riffing, a lead sound and through to scooped Boogie.

That's pretty impressive, and all of the above took me about 15 minutes 

FarleyUK

peteri said:

And to be clear, you really don't need to do all these tricks to get a good sound.

I had a Helix and found myself playing with EQ blocks, compressors, input impedence settings etc.

With the Ax8 I needed none of these, dropped an amp, cab and reverb and it sounded amazing.

What Clarky is describing is how to really get an amazing range out of the unit - so there really is no reason using the above ideas you can't get an incredible range of sounds without changing a preset. I can go from clean Fender, through Plexi, to Iron Maiden riffing, a lead sound and through to scooped Boogie.

That's pretty impressive, and all of the above took me about 15 minutes 

This. So much this.

I was forever playing with EQ blocks, cutting the amp high and low levels in the amp, after the amp, before the amp, Output EQ, input pad etc. Spent more time trying to get a decent tone than anything else.

Literally took me 5 mins (if that!) in the AX8. JCM800 #34 - BOOM!

I do still use the EQ I had in the Helix to remove some of the nasty frequencies at the end of the signal chain in the AX8 though; think it's reducing the 3.4kHz frequency by about 3dB, Q of around 7.

guitarfishbay

To be honest there’s some kind of nasty frequency in pretty much all distorted guitar tones, you get them in real amp setups too. Between 3 and 4khz is a common place to find one

gearaddict

Yeah, I think it's easy to forget that a lot of the 'oddness' you can hear with modellers (if you focus on it!) is actually a genuine part of the modelling. I kept hearing a kind of fizzy crackling behind the bass notes with the Helix but when I tried my valve amps again I was hearing the exact same thing. Not with every amp mind but it is just a question of what you like to hear in an amp.

The cool thing about modellers is that if you don't like something, you can usually dial it out...not so easy with real amps IME.

peteri

Exactly - and to 'validate' Clarkys idea some more.

Over lunchtime today (working from home) - I swapped the 5153 Blue, for the Recto 1 Red.

Very impressed, and worked sound wise better for me, so I now have:

Clean/Crunch/Riffage/Lead - all with the Recto, differing gain and very slight eq changes
Instant Eddie - 5153 100W Red

All out of one preset with 2 chorus settings, a Phaser, a Univibe, 2 delays and two drives (a FET (Klone) boost and a BBpreamp), available on footswitches.

Not only seriously impressed with the sounds, but also - when you write it down, that's quite enough 'power'!

This is all within one preset remember

gearaddict

Yeah, I want one...just too much money

Clarky

gearaddict said:

Yeah, I think it's easy to forget that a lot of the 'oddness' you can hear with modellers (if you focus on it!) is actually a genuine part of the modelling. I kept hearing a kind of fizzy crackling behind the bass notes with the Helix but when I tried my valve amps again I was hearing the exact same thing. Not with every amp mind but it is just a question of what you like to hear in an amp.

The cool thing about modellers is that if you don't like something, you can usually dial it out...not so easy with real amps IME.

if the modelling is really good..
it'll model warts and all

Clarky

peteri said:

Exactly - and to 'validate' Clarkys idea some more.

Over lunchtime today (working from home) - I swapped the 5153 Blue, for the Recto 1 Red.

Very impressed, and worked sound wise better for me, so I now have:

Clean/Crunch/Riffage/Lead - all with the Recto, differing gain and very slight eq changes
Instant Eddie - 5153 100W Red

All out of one preset with 2 chorus settings, a Phaser, a Univibe, 2 delays and two drives (a FET (Klone) boost and a BBpreamp), available on footswitches.

Not only seriously impressed with the sounds, but also - when you write it down, that's quite enough 'power'!

This is all within one preset remember

to add to this...
my lil' techniques are not there to get a great tone.. cos that's the easy bit..
my lil' techniques provide an alternative way of sweating the assets..
essentially.. get more out of what's there..

Clarky

FarleyUK said:

peteri said:

And to be clear, you really don't need to do all these tricks to get a good sound.

I had a Helix and found myself playing with EQ blocks, compressors, input impedence settings etc.

With the Ax8 I needed none of these, dropped an amp, cab and reverb and it sounded amazing.

What Clarky is describing is how to really get an amazing range out of the unit - so there really is no reason using the above ideas you can't get an incredible range of sounds without changing a preset. I can go from clean Fender, through Plexi, to Iron Maiden riffing, a lead sound and through to scooped Boogie.

That's pretty impressive, and all of the above took me about 15 minutes 

This. So much this.

I was forever playing with EQ blocks, cutting the amp high and low levels in the amp, after the amp, before the amp, Output EQ, input pad etc. Spent more time trying to get a decent tone than anything else.

Literally took me 5 mins (if that!) in the AX8. JCM800 #34 - BOOM!

I do still use the EQ I had in the Helix to remove some of the nasty frequencies at the end of the signal chain in the AX8 though; think it's reducing the 3.4kHz frequency by about 3dB, Q of around 7.

when it comes to EQ, I do it in three locations for three different reasons..

1 - shaping the input signal: I do this with a filter block before the amp
I only do this with hi-gain amps that suffer with a bloomy low end, ice-picky high end or both..
this is a simple cut on certain frequencies entering the amp so the preamp has less to 'get hold of'..
for example, I'd do this with my hot-rodded JCM800 because the lo's get very out of control / flabby / bloomy
so this technique tightens the lows

2 - corrective EQ: I do this with the GEQ inside the amp block. This is to dial out specific offending frequencies..
for example, with some amps there is too much going on in the lows and and low mids.. so I'll make a cut at 500Hz..
my corrective EQ never boosts stuff.. it is always subtractive.. stripping out that which offends..
also, if I was shaping the input with a filter, I'd allow myself to apply a little low end boost here to replace what got stripped..
the difference in this case is that it's happening after the amp modelling and so the low end being replaced does not get dirtier [which is what would happen if you simply turned up the bass control of the amp]

3 - sweetening EQ: I do this at the very end of the FX chain.. even after reverb / delay..
this is sweeten the tone overall.. usually amounts to a little boost here, and a little cut there..

FarleyUK

Anyone know of a way to use an expression pedal to change the mix of stereo cabs?

For example, I have a stereo cab block with V30s in one slot and Greenbacks in the other; how can I get it so that when I use the expression pedal toe-down I get 100% V30s, and when it's heel down I get 100% Greenbacks etc.?

Roland

Have you tried using a Stereo CAB, and attaching the pedal to the Balance? Then feed it into a block which sums left and right signals, for example a Mixer with output mode set to Dual Mono.

Clarky

FarleyUK said:

Anyone know of a way to use an expression pedal to change the mix of stereo cabs?

For example, I have a stereo cab block with V30s in one slot and Greenbacks in the other; how can I get it so that when I use the expression pedal toe-down I get 100% V30s, and when it's heel down I get 100% Greenbacks etc.?

don't think this can be done with a stereo cab..
can be done with two mono's though..
two ways:

1 - place the cabs in parallel [in different rows one above the other]
assign the cab level of each block to the same modifier
the graph for one cab would be start=100, mid=50, end=0, the other start=0, mid=50, end=100 [so they fade in / out in opposite directions]
assign the modifier to the expression pedal
this is all well and good, but if you want to goof with the level of the cab you'll have to adjust the modifier 'max' setting..

2 - place the two cabs in parallel as before
place a mixer block in front and use those modifier settings on the faders that correspond to the row that the cabs occupy..
so the mixer handles the cross-fade..
this will leave to level control within the cab free for you to set appropriately

Note: I suspect that with the expression pedal mid-way you may well get a bit of a boost in volume because both cabs are running at the same time..
if this does happen, lower the 'mid' value in the modifiers to something less than 50 [so if becomes a curve rather than a straight line].. I'm also guessing that if you have to do this, you'll want to set the mid values the same in both modifiers..
the actual value you'll have to work out by trial and error..

XP=heel, play the E sting repeatedly, slowly move the XP to toe and listen for a volume boost around the mid-point..
lower the mid value of both modifiers by 5 and go again.. and so on until it all sounds smooth

EDIT: ah... just remembered... the AX8 only has one cab block...
so... I don't think you can do this...
at least not this way...

Clarky

try this...
stereo amp block.. pan each cab hard and opposite..
place a vol block in front of the cab and assign the modifier to the pan control
pan left=cab1, pan right=cab2
after the cab block place a Vol block: pan left=0, pan right=0 to "mono-ise" the cab

don't know if this will work though..

Jonathanthomas83

What a legend, worth thinking outside that box, isn’t it!!!

Clarky

Jonathanthomas83 said:

What a legend, worth thinking outside that box, isn’t it!!!

to me, solving problems [which I've had to do to make my own presets work] is like doing a puzzle..

- I need to do X
- the unit cannot do X via a standard feature
- how can I chain things together and manipulate them to make X happen
- experiment loads...
then..
- how can I improve on this [make the solution more efficient / offer more functionality / use it creatively for something else]