My AX8 vs Helix LT Journey

guitarfishbay

If you want to play bass I’d personally go for 6 inch woofers if you can. I actually think that’s generally a good size for near fields anyway, but I will note that Genelecs seem to punch above their weight for low end when I’ve heard them.

I’ve got Focal Solos (was close between them an Genelec 8040s) but there’s no need to spend that much for a good sound for playing at home. Yamaha HS7s are popular, as are KRKs - a used set of VXT6 would be a solid choice and work well for bass but even Rockits are fine, they just have a less detailed high end in comparison to the Yamaha’s or higher range KRKs. I used Rockit 6s for years, kind of miss the yellow cones! I also had HS8s but found the tweeters a bit aggressive for my tastes, but they sound fine and great for bass (but they’re huge).

Clarky

peteri said:

Grief! I bet the 4x12 sounds immense!

two of them... cos I'm in stereo / dual mono..

yes it does.. it's wonderful

Clarky

DavusPG said:

Clarky said:

in the studio I play my Axe through a pair of studio monitors
live I use a Matrix GT1000FX power amp driving a pair of Marshall 4x12 cabs

Presumably no feed to FOH from your AX8 then?

Depends on what venues you're playing I guess.

I'd written off using mine with my regular 2x12 cab but should give it a go. 

I don't have an AX8, I have Axe-FX II

no feed to FoH in any venue
just mic the cabs old school..
it's easy.. for the stage crew it's business as usual..
also bear in mind that I mostly play outside the UK and so there will be places where the stage crew don't speak the same languages as me.. so explaining stuff outside the norm could be difficult..

also... I like the beamy nature of the cabs..
I never have them right behind me, but off to my right side a little
it means I can step in and out of the jet stream as and when I like

The Matrix power amp is light weight, very loud and tonally very transparent..
so all the tone comes from the Axe-FX and the real cabs

peteri

Thanks - you've just reminded me I've got a pretty decent set of powered monitors in storage (also known as at my mums house!) must dig them out

For the life of me can't remember the make which is winding me up intensely!

DavusPG

Clarky said:

DavusPG said:

Clarky said:

in the studio I play my Axe through a pair of studio monitors
live I use a Matrix GT1000FX power amp driving a pair of Marshall 4x12 cabs

Presumably no feed to FOH from your AX8 then?

Depends on what venues you're playing I guess.

I'd written off using mine with my regular 2x12 cab but should give it a go. 

I don't have an AX8, I have Axe-FX II

no feed to FoH in any venue
just mic the cabs old school..
it's easy.. for the stage crew it's business as usual..
also bear in mind that I mostly play outside the UK and so there will be places where the stage crew don't speak the same languages as me.. so explaining stuff outside the norm could be difficult..

also... I like the beamy nature of the cabs..
I never have them right behind me, but off to my right side a little
it means I can step in and out of the jet stream as and when I like

The Matrix power amp is light weight, very loud and tonally very transparent..
so all the tone comes from the Axe-FX and the real cabs

I had wondered about this: feeding a cab and still micing it like my band mates with their regular amp&cab setups, but it seemed a waste of the AX's ability to go straight to FOH.

Undoubtedly something I need to experiment with as I still have a tube amp and a 2x12 cab, so must hook up the AX8 and try driving it with the tube power and regular cab. 

So presumably you disable power amp and cab modelling on your patches?

Jonathanthomas83

I’m not sure what kind of results you’ll get, as Clarky’s Matrix amp is neutral and the power amp in your tube amp isn’t. So it may sound good with some preamps but not so much with others, worth experimenting with though, no doubt.

peteri

Absolutely disable power and cab modelling.

Also remember if you're running in mono, to set the outputs to be sum L+R rather than stereo - otherwise you'll only be getting one side of any stereo effect (makes a big difference!)

My experience has been that for a few clean(ish) amps this works (running into an amp), but in that scenario the best results for me have been not to use any amp model at all. I simply have a 'Pedalboard' which contains pedals - sorry that sounds stupid but I hope you know what I mean.

You might find things different if you run into the return, but it depends on where the tone stack of your amp is

DavusPG

Ah ok

I've been weighing up something like a Matrix and regular cab....or alternatively a FRFR powered cab.

Given I already have a H&K 2x12 and a Zilla 1x12 cab perhaps I'm better going for a neutral power amp like the Matrix.

I'd planned on just going to the PA, but that might not be so great in smaller venues or e even rehearsal where the other guitar and bass are just using their cabs.

With something transparent like a Matrix would you disable power amp modelling or not?

DavusPG

@peteri ;

Yes I was planning to go into the return.

As you say I need to experiment, but don't really want anything colouring the anp models

guitarfishbay

If you are using a Matrix or other solid state power amp there is no need to switch off power amp modelling.

Running cab models into traditional cabs usually doesn’t sound great but there are no rules saying you can’t do it.

John_P

I run mine with out1 in stereo to FoH and out2 before the cab block to one or two Marshalls stacks.   Sometimes I’ll use a fender twin instead but not for a while.    Sounds massive on stage and easy for the PA sound.  
It’s a shame that is all the outputs in use as I’d love to see what a w/d/w set up can sound like.   

DavusPG

 Sounds like a win, win combination.

What do you power your Marshalls with John?

Beexter

DavusPG said:

Ah ok

I've been weighing up something like a Matrix and regular cab....or alternatively a FRFR powered cab.

Given I already have a H&K 2x12 and a Zilla 1x12 cab perhaps I'm better going for a neutral power amp like the Matrix.

I'd planned on just going to the PA, but that might not be so great in smaller venues or e even rehearsal where the other guitar and bass are just using their cabs.

With something transparent like a Matrix would you disable power amp modelling or not?

I did a gig at the weekend and ran my AX8 straight into the PA with my DXR10 on the floor in front of me for my own monitoring. This is now easily my preferred setup - it's so quick, convenient and consistent.  The other guitarist didn't go through the PA at all, just used his Marshall  (one of the Valvestate jobbies) and there was no problem hearing both guitars clearly  (even though he had to have the Marshall fairly cranked). It was quite a small venue but i think you will still need some sort of monitoring, whether that be a power amp and cab or a powered FRFR speaker as relying on FOH speakers to hear yourself would be very difficult. 
I'm really happy with an FRFR setup but that's not saying it's right for everyone. 

Jonathanthomas83

@Beexter have you tried FRFR in a larger venue yet? You think it would scale ok with the DXR10?

Roland

I run Out1 to FOH which is normally Mackie SRM450s, and Out2 to a Matrix Q12 FRFR. Speaker emulation is on for both. Mackies and Matrix have different EQ profiles, so I use a Graphic EQ to bring them closer together.

DavusPG

Wis'd all round...

Thanks for sharing how you amplify your AX8/FX

@Roland are you using the output EQs to Out 1 & 2 together or a separate block?

Beexter

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@Beexter have you tried FRFR in a larger venue yet? You think it would scale ok with the DXR10?

No but I did an outside gig with the same set up without issue (apart from the driving rain!!!!) To be honest, I could play the O2 (in my dreams!) and I wouldn't want for much more stage volume than I had on Saturday. The DXR is ONLY providing stage monitoring for me - all FOH volume is coming from the FOH speakers. For the gig on Saturday, this was a pair of Yamaha MSR400's which are a lot less powerful than the DXR.
At the gig on Saturday (school hall), none of the kit was even breaking a sweat, there was loads of volume and headroom in reserve.

I usually set the output level on the AX8 at around 2-3o'clock which gives a healthy signal level with a bit of flexibility if needed. 
Sometimes, I'll go out the AX8 and into the DXR via an xlr cable (I usually run everything mono) and then take an xlr from the DXR to the desk. Other times, I go 1/4" from AX8 to DXR and xlr out from AX8 to desk. Can't really tell any difference- both options seem to work fine.

John_P

DavusPG said:

 Sounds like a win, win combination.

What do you power your Marshalls with John?

Marshall heads and cabs - jubilee and a superbass are the usual amps over 4x12’s 

Jonathanthomas83

Beexter said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@Beexter have you tried FRFR in a larger venue yet? You think it would scale ok with the DXR10?

No but I did an outside gig with the same set up without issue (apart from the driving rain!!!!) To be honest, I could play the O2 (in my dreams!) and I wouldn't want for much more stage volume than I had on Saturday. The DXR is ONLY providing stage monitoring for me - all FOH volume is coming from the FOH speakers. For the gig on Saturday, this was a pair of Yamaha MSR400's which are a lot less powerful than the DXR.
At the gig on Saturday (school hall), none of the kit was even breaking a sweat, there was loads of volume and headroom in reserve.

I usually set the output level on the AX8 at around 2-3o'clock which gives a healthy signal level with a bit of flexibility if needed. 
Sometimes, I'll go out the AX8 and into the DXR via an xlr cable (I usually run everything mono) and then take an xlr from the DXR to the desk. Other times, I go 1/4" from AX8 to DXR and xlr out from AX8 to desk. Can't really tell any difference- both options seem to work fine.

Thanks mate, appreciate that. Can't wait to do more stuff with mine outside of my bedroom! haha

Roland

DavusPG said:

@Roland are you using the output EQs to Out 1 & 2 together or a separate block?

Output EQ